RuneScape Forum Archive | (F2P) QoL Improvements v2

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

As for potential 'expansions' (or whatever they should be called), I'd like to refer you to this post of mine.

Rikornak said :
...

In general, the most viable areas to expand on would be self-contained ones - caves or islands for instance. I really do not like those random fences they've put up in so many places in the f2p area, which obviously solely are for separating f2p and p2p areas - the natural borders we have nowadays in most places just feel so much cleaner.

I must admit I do not like Impressing the Locals as it stands as a member already. It's one of the first quests you could do - and it unlocks an area, which basically is useless to you, until you're 90 levels higher in several skills. As a free player it doesn't get better, since the only options would be 'you'll only enter the arc as a member' - which outright will lock them out of the main quest reward. Or you'll accept you're never be able to do anything in this place - unless it's somehow involved in some random f2p available quest or event (albeit those do never take place in locked up areas).

Likewise I wouldn't give them access to Mazcab for the same reason. Sure they could do the quest and explore that location, but other than that it's just not a place for free players.

Bringing home the bacon sends you to Ardougne at some point and thus wouldn't be possible. Considering how minor the benefit for f2p would be, it's not really justified adjusting the quest just for the sake of free players being able to play it.

If you think about it - with some slight adjustments, free players would be able to do rag and bone man here and now. Ever since 2021 we got frog spawns in the Lumbridge swamp, if the bone required is changed to a general frog bone, the quest could be made outright available - without any expansion or the likes of that. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

19-Sep-2023 05:58:49

Seasons Past

Posts: 559 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I'm with Rikornak that Impressing the Locals should stay P2P, as it gives access to a high-level P2P area. Same for Mazcab. Given that Thieving is P2P, I'd also hesitate to add Buyers and Cellars to F2P. I haven't done Bringing Home the Bacon, so no comment. All of the others I see as feasible.

Revisiting the P2P skill ceiling, Farming I think would offer some value up to level 20 as it stands, without adding any new content or tweaking mechanics. At 20, you can plant several kinds of herbs, flowers, and allotments and the first growable wood tree. Some of those crops are quite profitable, and they provide a good introduction to Farming.

The Woodcutting rework has opened the door for existing farmed wood trees to be re-tiered (and possibly acadia and the hardwoods added). With oak trees unlocked at level 10 and willows at 20, the Enlightened Journey quest would become doable with an Entrana/Zanaris expansion. This has probably been mentioned before, but it seems closer to being a reality since Woodcutting was rebalanced.

If I haven't said it before, I concur with what Rikornak said about Agility shortcuts in F2P areas; in general, their requirements should be lowered to fit within the first 20 levels in the event of 20 being the new limit. Spirit of Forinthry ~ Runecrafting: Magic Armour ~ F2P Extensions ~ Dragon Slayer improvements ~ New Player Experience

19-Sep-2023 09:46:41 - Last edited on 19-Sep-2023 10:44:37 by Seasons Past

Seasons Past

Posts: 559 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

It makes me sad that Agility shortcuts used to be quite useful. They were thoughtfully placed in locations where they would save a significant amount of time and run energy. Trollheim is one of the few enduring examples. Another example was the Zanaris passage shortcuts to the Cosmic Altar, which were similarly helpful before the Abyss took over. Given the ubiquity and proliferation of teleports, I'm at a loss as to how to make shortcuts more useful for navigation, but there may be alternative ways to make them more rewarding.

The best I can come up with is to add Agility-locked extensions to certain areas. Maybe something like an outcrop at a mine, with rarer Mining rocks which you would have to climb to get to. Or a large rock off the shore of Catherby with more harpoon and lobster spots. Or a ledge on a cliffside at the Gnome Stronghold with some yews and an extra magic tree. This sort of area extension could also work for Hunter areas, though not so much for Divination wisp colonies.

The above Agility add-ons could be released alongside some of the suggested new F2P content. For example, in addition to adding teak and acadia trees around Garden of Kharid and Het's Oasis, Agility-locked (P2P) mahogany trees could be placed atop some of the cliffs. While this wouldn't directly benefit F2P, it would help to integrate better rewards for Agility with F2P expansions.

This would also just make sense from a design perspective. If you're more nimble, you can get into hard-to-reach places with better rewards. Spirit of Forinthry ~ Runecrafting: Magic Armour ~ F2P Extensions ~ Dragon Slayer improvements ~ New Player Experience

19-Sep-2023 10:38:23 - Last edited on 20-Sep-2023 04:29:35 by Seasons Past

Seasons Past

Posts: 559 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

While there would be obvious similarity to Dungeoneering resource dungeons, I feel confident that there would be large enough differences for both to remain relevant. To start, the differences in training Agility versus Dungeoneering alone are a significant factor. A lot of people seem to hate Dungeoneering because it can't be AFKed. Then there is the F2P/P2P difference. Also, Dungeoneering currently doesn't have any low-to-mid level Hunter resources other than implings. Then there is the fact that Dungeoneering has a wide range of rewards which aren't affected at all by Agility. Even if, hypothetically, Agility usurped the benefits of resource dungeons, it would be a net benefit because Agility would become more useful, while Dungeoneering would also still be useful.

The main appeal of Agility-locked resources would be the convenience. If you're already at a mining site, tree grove, or what have you, it would be pretty nice to have an extra special few rocks/trees/fish/fluffy animals to yourself. Spirit of Forinthry ~ Runecrafting: Magic Armour ~ F2P Extensions ~ Dragon Slayer improvements ~ New Player Experience

19-Sep-2023 11:06:52 - Last edited on 19-Sep-2023 11:16:12 by Seasons Past

Deltaslug

Posts: 32,671 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

@Rikornak
Ok, I missed slightly on Bringing Home the Bacon
Trying to go thru the entire quest list on the wiki, check the stat reqs, and trying to half remember everything that could be done on the F2P area .... I mean .. there are a lot of quests now ...

I still stand by the spirit of the intent behind the list to showcase what could be done if devs upped the skill level F2P can use to Level 20.

A dev could always make some of the quests have a lower requirement as well. They did that with the Perils of Ice Mountain quest.

The Dig Site would be a big example. Lower the Herblore Requirement to 20, along with raising the F2P skills to 20 ... F2P could easily do the quest.

As you mentioned, New foundations to make the Fort is ... doable ... the only drawback being the Lvl 20 cap. A lot of lost XP.

Even I would not go along with Dimension of Disaster even if it could be started easily enough by F2P ... I'm not sure if the Once Upon a Time in Gielinor requires the other quests (other than for the sake of understanding plot)

20-Sep-2023 03:52:05

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

@Seasons: I don't think the comparison would be too off. There often are areas unlocked in some fashion. Resource dungeons are extremely prominent, but it also could be quests, achievement diaries - or well: agility. Take a look at the morytania slayer tower - it got both a resource dungeon containing more abyssal demons, as well as for the tower exclusively dark beasts. But it also got an agility passage leading to a section with more of the general populace. I mean that said thieving could also be imaginable - just think about a door you could pick - which is barely used if you think about it.

Agility locked resource areas in general would have the same issue as dungeoneering locked ones have. If they're both in a more remote area (albeit you can teleport to dungeoneering ones upon receiving the 99 skillcape) and lack certain quality of life features (like let's say a deposit box), players will rather tend to stick to better accessible and convenient alternatives. Contested as they may be, it wouldn't be too hard to find an empty world - unless that given resource is extremely rare - like pre rework runite in the mining guild resource dungeon. That one certainly wasn't a good spot for general mining (in contrary to the coal mine dungeon with its deposit box), but you just can't find that stuff in lots of places. If it comes to skilling, it needs some kind of convenience regular places wouldn't have - think of the jatizso mine extension locked behind the elite fremmy tasks. You need to do a lot more than just going out to mine that ore north of relleka. But you also got an NPC, which willingly notes those ores for you. For slayer (or contested combat content in general) it would work better, since you just have more options to fight those creatures - in a location not everybody could reach in the first place. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

20-Sep-2023 06:13:53 - Last edited on 20-Sep-2023 06:40:50 by Rikornak

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

@Deltaslug: I think that's why it's important to have another pair of eyes looking on that stuff. That quest certainly was among the first things on my mind for an extension as well, until I saw: woops, you need to go to Ardougne.

As said I think lowering requirements of things slightly above 20 (or whatever the level cap might become in the future, I got an idea of a late expansion using level 30 as a further extended trial) should be used rather conservatively, since this might make the next few levels basically unutilizable, since "why is that certain feature not available to free players", while at the same time unlocking lots of lots of things at the given cap.

Probably better as part of a general rebalancing - taking our agility shortcuts again, there are lots of inadequate things, that could be lowered from 60 something or so to 20 something. No - honestly, I would want them to review every single shortcut in the game - and if the level required is inadequate - it just should receive a new one. Not saying shortcuts above 20 should be impossible in misthalin and asgarnia - but most of them should be at most 20. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

20-Sep-2023 06:30:01 - Last edited on 20-Sep-2023 06:48:55 by Rikornak

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

But on an individual case basis an extremely recent example is necrotic runecrafting, which is unlocked at necromancy level 24. Of course it could be lowered to 20 for the sake of f2p (which was asked in this thread as well), but this would imply you'll unlock ink creation (which is outright needed for the latter two and for some reason available to free players), equipment creation (which I would open up to f2p) and necrotic runecrafting at the same time, while losing a progression element, that deliberately was set on a later point for the sake of game flow and feeling of progression in general - since right now you can make your improved equipment, mess around a bit with it and then start with creating runes. Necromancy certainly is a skill, that gives you lot of things at once already, so I don't think it would be healthy to compress things even further.

That said I do think, they could lower the requirements of the dig site quest, but they certainly should restore the original requirements of perils of the ice mountain to have that original progression path again, when that extension happens. Likewise the Dig Site should be restored if a p2p skill trial would get extended further later in the future.

Not really a fan of just being able to start the special quests, without being able to actually finish them, it certainly hits a bit differently, than just being able to play the first installment of a quest series. The referred quests in Once upon a Time in Gielinor are only recommendations, but I think purely free players would lack way too much of context for any quest, but the first one. The first one certainly could be used, since it literally refers to f2p quests. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

20-Sep-2023 06:30:16 - Last edited on 20-Sep-2023 06:49:57 by Rikornak

Balkj06

Posts: 240 Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Having parts of a quest be f2p, is something I am not a fan of.

However it does exist in-game.

Benedict's World Tour can be started as a f2p, but you can only finish the quest as a member.

So it's possible you could give f2p a quest like Recipe for Disaster. I'm just not a fan of the idea.

As for Bringing home the bacon. It's a fully voiced quest, that alone should be a good enough reason to make it f2p.

The Ardougne part is one voiced line. Lore wise, what happens in Ardougne is the same as what happens in Falador, Lumbridge and Varrock.

To make it f2p, you would have to change that part of the quest and say the player just needs to take the pig to 3 big cites. With the suggested ones being (Ardougne, Falador, Lumbridge and Varrock).

It's not impossible to make it f2p, however we should focus more on f2p Construction, Farming, and Summoning 1st.

I don't see what is so bad using Impressing the Locals to show off the 90+ members areas.
2016 wasn't that long ago. It's a newish members only area.

21-Sep-2023 07:51:25

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

The world tour certainly is an interesting case. It basically was intended to promote the NXT client over Java back in the day. Since NXT is the sole client nowadays besides mobile, they probably could have let the promotion come to an end - yet it became the miniquest it is now. That is given the fact, that the promotion had had two rewards - one for exploring all of the things in the f2p area, one for exploring all of the things in the p2p area. It probably would have made more sense if it had been split into two separate miniquests for that matter.

Recipe for Disaster is extremely unlikely to even have the first quest to ever become available to f2p, since it involves a gnomish cocktail. And I can't see them ever giving free players access to Kandarin. Dimension of Disaster probably would a bit easier, since the Shield of Arrav only requires the completion of its counterpart in the regular world. Albeit yeah - what would be the value of that?

While I do agree with the Ardougne section wouldn't contribute much to the quest, it certainly would be a precedent to abolishing involvement in p2p areas just because the majority takes place in the f2p world anyway. It's a bit like the 20 cap and things slightly above it. A designer should always have the creative liberty to make use of skills and the game world as they think would be right.

Think of a quest reward that let's you access an area - and basically everything you could interact with would tell you "x requires a level 90 levels higher than yours" or "You need to be a member to interact with x". While the former is certainly a thing right now, do you think that makes up a great quest reward? For that matter I think the gnomecopter tours from 2008 were more elegant, since you outright could see this thing is solely to promote all the cool things you could access with membership - but all in all Jagex decided to discontinuing this kind of membership promotions eventually. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

21-Sep-2023 10:01:46

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(F2P) QoL Improvements v2