RuneScape Forum Archive | (F2P) QoL Improvements v2

Dec

2023

Noctis King

Posts: 77 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

@ Rikaornak: Okay make sense. Depends on Jagex how far it will be to update combat as whole or offense skills.

If summoning were to get a level 20 cap, it would be a simpler skill to adjust than other skills. The spirit spider, granite crab, and spirit scorpion would be most feasible to add. Granite Crab and Spirit Scorpion already have iron ore and bronze claws available for f2p. For Spirit Spider, you need a drop from the lowest level jungle spider, which in p2p is in the f2p area. So making jungle spiders f2p is no problem. Other summoned creatures do not seem feasible since they are all in the member area. But the spirit spider, granite crab, and spirit scorpion seem like a nice transition to leveling up summoning skills to 20.

https://runescape.wiki/w/Summoning_familiars

29-Aug-2023 18:03:54 - Last edited on 29-Aug-2023 18:07:20 by Noctis King

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Thanks a lot of going into detail for that.

On pages 40 and 41 we discussed a bit about how level 20 trials for f2p could look like, with an evaluation from my side how valuable those skills would be as they stood at that time (albeit not really much happened within the first 20 levels for most of the skills for that matter - construction being a big exception, albeit I doubt they'll ever consider giving the fort to free players for a multitude of reasons - lots of wasted xp for the quest on free worlds being the most glaring one).

In general if we're just taking existing content (the spirit spider certainly is a good catch - they do spawn on musa point on p2p worlds after all) it isn't really much more. I certainly would still extend all p2p skills to a 20 levels trial with those three familiars included - but I can't say it has enough meat on its bones to justify that summoning extension alone. It's a bit the issue herblore would have as well, which is why I had suggested a couple of new potions on top. But that's certainly no as simple for summoning.

I actually think summoning could highly benefit from a full rebalance, which would include reducing the levels required for lots of familiars to utilize the 99 levels available just better - and also their stats - a lot of the lower and medium levelled ones still aren't insanely adequate for the modern game.

If you think about it - I certainly would keep free players in gold charms territory exclusively - you could in theory summon an arctic bear from its materials alone (albeit I certainly wouldn't remotely bring it down to 20 levels, but just to think about the materials it involves). Of course new familiars would be imaginable as well - but those would also need more thought than just being the next fighter thing only... Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

29-Aug-2023 20:01:43 - Last edited on 29-Aug-2023 20:11:52 by Rikornak

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Seems like the currently planned changes to the other combat styles are far more minor than expected:

https://nitter.net/jagexryan/status/1696581617181999477?s=46&t=6ZzSTkzWnrR0vuEkFNy2UQ

Using the crit system, damage potential and increased hit cap from necromancy is a vast improvement over status quo, but it certainly won't elevate the other styles to play just remotely as awesome as necromancy would. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

01-Sep-2023 10:07:20

Deltaslug

Posts: 32,671 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Admittedly, it is a shame they haven't raised the reaming F2P skills to Level 20.

Granted ... Hunter, Agility, Slayer, and Thieving wouldn't gain too much in the way of new content for F2P to do. Run more laps of the Burth course, pickpocket more citizens and maybe 1-2 new stalls, and just get to do a few more Slayer Tasks.

Divination at least already has the Level 10 and 20 Wisps on the F2P Map (north of Falador and near Varrock)

Construction would add a little bit more for F2P to do for the PoH

Summoning wouldn't be hard to train. But there would be limits and some benefits. The Spider, Snail, Granite Crab, Mosquito, Desert Wyrm, and Spirit Scorpion would be accessible.
The Crab and Scorpion are the only other ones creatable atm on F2P. The crab would be useful for F2P fishing and Wyrm for F2P mining. All of them are rubbish for combat.

Farming would add some stuff, but nothing to get excited over.

Herblore would at least F2P make all of their own combat potions.

18-Sep-2023 04:24:54

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I'll get my thoughts from a year ago over here with a bit of newly added things following content updates and discussions:

Rikornak said :
Divination is fairly a no-brainer. It obviously wouldn't hurt if some things were rebalanced for a bit (i.e. divine oak tree needs to be pushed down from 21 to 10something), but as it stands you literally can see this skill as it stands up to level 20.

As for a slayer extension it wasn't too bad they added jacquelyn last year, since she is a bit more than the tutorial master players naturally were forced to use for a while. But since low levelled slayer masters solely are locked by combat level it's easy enough to make vannaka available as well. Question of course would rather what free players could fight. Taverley slayer cave always could be expanded further, but it might be feasible to give them access to the lumbridge swamp caves - albeit for that a lot of pre-work needs to be done.

Farming kinda works - it just lacks interesting stuff to do at low levels - that basically could have been tackled by the POF3.

Construction also is a no-brainer. It probably wouldn't hurt to give free players access to oak planks and a couple of pieces of furniture as well. That skill also isn't that interesting up to level 20 - but it doesn't need to be at that point.

Not too much to add to the first three skills to be fair - with the exception of the addition of the raptor, which is way out of bounds for f2p, a lot of general QoL for slayer - and the woodcutting rework, which should lead to adjustments for partner skills like trees involved in farming and divination - namely oak and willow for f2p.

Construction got a massive update with the fort meanwhile. While this would be good reward space, actually introducing the first quest to f2p would cause much more damage than good, since they would lose out on a lot of xp (since you would be 40something alone through the xp gained during that quest). Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

18-Sep-2023 06:49:05 - Last edited on 18-Sep-2023 08:24:26 by Rikornak

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Rikornak said :
Agility - kinda reminds me of the Zeah exclusive league in OS. You literally were forced to train this skill with one-off experience, barbarian fishing and shortcuts. I mean - for 20 levels it certainly would work... but yeah gladly, this skill in RS3 is no longer as essential, as it historically was.

Summoning and Herblore probably would need a tad bit more features - if those are entirely new (see my herblore suggestions) or rebalanced old ones would be up to jagex, but they're both good enough to show off, what this skill is up to.

Thieving and Hunter are pointless at low levels - the former is okay to generate a couple of GP as ironman to start out, the latter gives a lot of ultra exotic materials, you either just need once or never in the first place. Scarab hunting probably was the best low to mid level hunter feature ever released in either game.

Also not too much to add there either. I had had a discussion with a fellow forumer a while ago, if it would make sense to make agility and/or thieving into fully fledged f2p skills as they stand, which they genuinely do not due to the heavy involvement in p2p areas even at lower levels already. But I do think it could make sense adding a course intended for level 10 (and maybe even 20), since the p2p version is lacking there as well to accomodate an extended trial. As said - without it's literally zeah league all over again.

Also some more interesting thoughts. OS is currently proposing an hunter revamp, which includes quite a few new things, but also proposes making existing things much more useful, when it comes to utilizing meat as food and fur for certain things.

https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/a=100/c=K8uQWK2e4JM/the-hunter-guild---varlamore?oldschool=1 Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

18-Sep-2023 06:57:41

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I do think RS3 could benefit from something similiar as well, but obviously f2p would need access to a couple more of creatures for this to fully work. As said - hunter basically is pointless right now at lower levels - this applies to both games. The number of useful things in either game can literally be counted on one hand.

But yeah - as the skills currently stand, the no-brainer is divination, since it's basically feature complete (of course new things and rebalancing always could be done, but obviously as the most recent skill in question, it actually came with some concept for progression, rather than more or less randomly used level requirements, which more often than not are biased to low level training methods), most other skills would work more or less - but yeah agility, hunter and thieving do need (meaningful) things - both as evolving training methods as well as reward space.

Just take agility - I do not know what the value of an extended show case would be, when there just is nothing to show. As for reward space it doesn't look much better - f2p basically would get access to the literally disfunctional grapple shortcut between lumbridge and al kharid, and two questionable shortcuts with grapple falador north and some fence south of varrock. Everything else lies in p2p areas. Alongside that new agility course(s), they obviously should consider lowering most shortcuts within misthalin and asgarnia to be available within those 20 levels, as well as introducing some more with some kind of purpose.

But yeah - most skills could be extended, they do not need to be meaningful within the showcase. Just give f2p a bit of a chance to mess around with them. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

18-Sep-2023 07:24:55 - Last edited on 18-Sep-2023 08:29:37 by Rikornak

Seasons Past

Posts: 559 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Agility's dilemma is that it's the quintessential "support" skill. Besides quest requirements, it only became worthwhile to train when it was updated to give benefits to other skills, namely Hunter, Fishing, and Thieving.

I think Agility works best as a long-term oriented skill, with the benefits increasing gradually. It still is underpowered, so adding more indirect benefits would be a step forward.

Some options include:
-Passive "dexterity" bonus to artisan skills, providing a chance to speed up progress toward making an item (Smithing), or to make the item more quickly (Construction/Crafting/Fletching)
-Decreased failure rate when Thieving (conceptually a "stealth" bonus); this would stack with the current chance of increased loot from pickpocketing but would apply to all Thieving activities
-Passive dodge bonus/damage reduction from environmental hazards (e.g. when failing log shortcuts, leaf traps, various traps in Icthlarin's Little Helper, Desert Treasure, Within the Light, Fate of the Gods, etc)
-Dodge bonus/damage reduction in combat would be controversial, but it could give a small bonus as Strength does for Mining. It could also have limits, like if you're in combat with multiple opponents, only the Defence bonus would apply

I do agree that the first 20 levels don't need to - and shouldn't - be showstopping, as that would defeat the purpose of training the skill as a member. Spirit of Forinthry ~ Runecrafting: Magic Armour ~ F2P Extensions ~ Dragon Slayer improvements ~ New Player Experience

19-Sep-2023 02:41:44 - Last edited on 19-Sep-2023 02:58:09 by Seasons Past

Deltaslug

Posts: 32,671 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

There is 1 other advantage to raising the bar to Level 20: the potential of making some more quests F2P accessible.

Right now, if they wanted to (with little in the way of new areas)
All Fired Up
Rune Memories
Impressing the Locals
Recruitment Drive
What lies below

Raising the Level Bar, you could add ... without opening up new areas:
- Buyers and Cellars
- Bringing Home the Bacon

Depending on what devs were willing to open up to F2P:
If they opened up the Lumbridge Swamp Cave and light sources
- Tears of Guthix
- Rag and Bone Man
- The Lost Tribe

With Mazcab/Tuska's Back
- Call of the Ancestors

With Entrana and Some Access to Zanaris
- Lost city

19-Sep-2023 04:42:23

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I think the original motivation of agility was the ability to use various shortcuts. The (back then more than broken - I mean just take a look at OS for that)) run energy system and its synergy with that only was released at some point in RS2 (albeit I can't exactly find out when via the wikis). Since both effects are somewhat diminished nowadays (albeit certainly not close as useless as some players want to put them), it's probably reasonable to find alternative effects.

When it comes to combat interaction the most reasonable idea would be giving some dodge chance (no fancy new mechanics for that, just that thing necromancy has introduced for its higher levelled tank sets and the darkness incantation), I doubt something like a 0.05 % chance per level would be too unreasonable for instance. That would allow players to get to 34.95 % dodge as a maximum (+a bit more if they're boosting agility above 99). At worst they would need to introduce diminishing returns at some point.

When it comes to skilling, I do not even think agility would need to be able to interact with all skills. Being nimble obviously helps with activities like fishing or thieving (or mining, since it literally goes the stamina route), but it doesn't make too much of sense with smithing for instance. Crafting maybe-ish?

But yeah in general it probably would already help, if we just could have a couple more of shortcuts at adequate levels . It's also a more visible benefit, than just having some passive benefits, that occurs every once in a while. Especially when things start to become extremely obscure in order to understand all the interactions between things. The combat fixes done yesterday were done to amend this obscurity when it comes to the combat system for instance - albeit more on a level of things not exactly behaving like players would expect them to. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

19-Sep-2023 05:37:11

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(F2P) QoL Improvements v2