RuneScape Forum Archive | (F2P) QoL Improvements v2

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

You never had had access to core materials and equipment above anything that was the equivalent of runite - be it t40 or 50 - so it obviously is roughly the cutoff line - and since it was increased once it can be dynamic (but should happen with some concept to be fair...). You're talking about special equipment - or outright things with inflated requirements. Yeah absolutely nice you needed 99 smithing in order to create your own rune platebody. Doesn't change anything about the fact is historically was only some piece of t40 trash, they elevated to t50 with the EoC in 2012 - giving you access to equivalent equipment for ranged and magic btw. Before the EoC the cutoff point was 40 - so yew and green dragon leather for ranged... and basically nothing for magic, since that were ultra dark times - and even darker ones for f2p. And even runite +3 is basically still just t50 equipment with higher than usual stats - you can wear it with 50 attack/defence after all.

Dungeoneering is an interesting case. Both free players and members have access to features they won't be able to come by otherwise - p2p got primal equipment, which still is higher levelled than anything else in the main game. F2p got access to zephyrium, then later argonite - which both were/are 10 tiers higher than what you can/could use outside of it as core equipment - the latter even only as a boss drop, never creatable with your skills. As for runes - they needed to allow you to create death runes during dungeoneering, since you otherwise wouldn't be able to come by the same capabilities as outside of it. Speaking of which... they just allow you to create them for teh lulz after 2012, since there even aren't any spells nowadays that require them while dungeoneering - and not too much outside of it. But in here again... isn't the death rune (alongside most runes out there) not just overinflated as well? In my runecrafting re-conception a few pages ago it ends up being... a t50 rune... Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

24-Jun-2023 06:23:46 - Last edited on 24-Jun-2023 06:43:32 by Rikornak

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

At most you can expect them to allow you to continue burning yew (and maybe magic, since those are boss drops right now) logs - but no chance to fletch anything except for arrow shafts. No chance . But you do not really believe they're going you to give free t70/80 weapons highly devaluing all the effort you have to push through to get all those special things you've mentioned. And how would you want to balance things for melee - giving free players access to all metals up to and including banite? What about magic? What about other ranged armour?

I mean of course it is never good to have something taken away. But in here you outright would receive something of equal or greater value - which would be two trees and kinds of equipment, that are adequately for you to create and work with. Yep obviously you lost out on some potential xp rates in the high 90s with the m/s rework as well, since runite suddenly became the t50 thing it always was supposed to be - but on the other hand you now adequately can create your top tier core things. Which never was possible in those 18 long years it took them to fix smithing. That wouldn't even happen with woodcutting. Acadia offers better xp rates than yew - and that is for members which can cut the latter adequately. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

24-Jun-2023 06:34:19 - Last edited on 24-Jun-2023 06:50:29 by Rikornak

Aslon Dak

Posts: 10,543 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Rikornak said :

So why exactly do you want some tree, that isn't of any use to you, when you received adequate replacements? Is it for legacy reasons only?
Two simple reasons: Convenience and XP.

Yews can be chopped at several different locations in F2P. My favorite spots are in Edgeville and Lumbridge, since both locations are quite close to a bank. Contrast this to maples, which can only be found in that one area. Then you must teleport to a bank (typically Al Kharid), unless you want to run to Daemonheim to bank.

Even if teak and acadia trees were to be added to F2P, these would not be adequate replacements for yews. Mahogany maybe. Taking T60/T70 trees away and replacing them with new T30 and T50 trees would just be a slap in the face to F2P woodcutters. Aslon Dak: Still 'Scaping after 19 years!
You can buy XP. You can't buy experience.
"...From The 'Scape" is very nearly here.

24-Jun-2023 07:00:00

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Convenience - I can agree with you. Maple trees are rancidly to come by as a free player. XP - no. Just no.

I'll refer to the f2p woodcutting guide from the wiki to get my numbers, since they've already added the experience rates to those two suddenly usable trees. Guide hasn't even bothered to list either of them if you're taking any edit before that update - yeah sure, they just were a waste of time no matter how you'd try to look at them. It was cutting willow all the way up from 30 to 99 as the best thing you could have done. Unlocking those two trees was nothing to cheer upon - like any ore above iron before the m&s rework... they existed. Being evil to say as a noob trap.

https://runescape.wiki/w/Free-to-play_Woodcutting_training

Maple trees offer experience rates from 38k (at level 40) up to 72k (at level 99)

Yew trees offer experience rates from 50k (at level 70) up to 64k (at level 99). As for commentary - that's actually fairly decent considering you do not have adequate equipment available - or any kind of booster for compensation. But no matter how you turn it - xp wise it's worse. And it was much, much, much, much,... worse before that.

The summary ignores the fact you could use urns. There is no yew urn for you to use. And there won't be one. So you can slap on another 20 % for maple.

With f2p woodcutting fixed (so access to teak and acadia is granted somehow) you would gain access to a wood box with 120-220 slots depending on your woodcutting level, which allow you to just go bank every once in a while (I mean you also need to replace your urns every so often after all...), instead of continously dropping them (which probably most players just will do, since maple logs are worthless) - or maybe they just burn them to train firemaking alongside it. With Yew there is nothing for you to gain compared to status quo - either you drop them - or you run to a bank every 28 logs cut. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

24-Jun-2023 07:13:28 - Last edited on 24-Jun-2023 08:01:51 by Rikornak

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

And yeah - you do not have a t60 tree - that's mahogany. Again - you never had had a t70 tree (yep - except kinda for right now, but it still just spills out t40 materials for your relevant skills) - it always was just a wide collection of trees, that was too high levelled for whatever they offered - as someone said even more glaring for yew and magic now. I mean stuff like oak, willow and maple already got the m&s treatment instead, it just were the higher levelled ones that went the other way.

And in here I am literally outright ignoring the acadia tree - which will highly ascend your woodcutting xp rates (while being conveniently enough to use depending on where they would be placed). Do you really call this replacement a slap in the face...? Really? A t70 tree offering t40 materials (which it still is - firemaking and fletching weren't touched at all so far) vs. a t50 one offering t50 stuff. All alongside improved xp rates not only compared to what it is supposed to replace - but actually what's even possible at the moment? Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

24-Jun-2023 07:16:15 - Last edited on 24-Jun-2023 08:38:56 by Rikornak

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I mean - they could have had those skills reworked like they did with m&s - after all for some reason nobody acted like their 't85 ore' was taken away from them - despite basically the same treatment (is it really the name of the material?). Yew, Magic and Elder would actually have been changed to t40,50,60 with no core trees existing above that point (and them maybish introducing new stuff later on). I am honest - that would have been my approach - those skills just do not have core features beyond 60 - they just conceal it extremely well. And even right now woodcutting only has that kind of interaction with construction.

Firemaking and fletching xp would have been adequately toned down (I mean post rework smithing has lower xp rates in the 90s for free players after all... but they became much more gradual all over the place, but it's obvious it ended for free players at 50), woodcutting would have been nothing there to gimp at that point, since that would have been more than compensated by increased cutting rates (mining certainly hasn't gotten a net nerf, since nothing above iron was viable to mine for xp in the first place). Would you have liked that solution more, instead of them providing you actually new and adequate trees for those tiers? Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

24-Jun-2023 08:39:20 - Last edited on 24-Jun-2023 08:41:46 by Rikornak

Seasons Past

Posts: 559 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

One thing I'd like to bring up is that for both the M&S and Woodcutting reworks, one of the main goals was evidently to make all core resources more viable to harvest at their respective levels. It's true that yew trees are still not well optimised for F2P. I think that's a valid concern; they're the top crop, so to speak, and should be balanced accordingly.

As Rikornak pointed out, the M&S rework dramatically lowered the requirement to mine runite as well as smith rune items, while the Woodcutting rework has raised the bar to chop yew logs. However, in both cases, level and experience adjustments have ultimately made the respective resources more viable relative to pre-rework - even if yew trees still aren't in as splendid a place as they arguably should be for a tree of their level. Spirit of Forinthry ~ Runecrafting: Magic Armour ~ F2P Extensions ~ Dragon Slayer improvements ~ New Player Experience

25-Jun-2023 07:14:46

Seasons Past

Posts: 559 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I've been under the assumption that the Woodcutting rework signifies upcoming changes to companion skills, especially Fletching. The issue of balancing the production skills associated with combat has repeatedly come up in developer Q&As and has been stated to be a high priority in the medium to long term. One could reasonably conclude that releasing a Woodcutting/Fletching/Firemaking rework, along with some changes to Farming, all at once could have delayed the release indefinitely. As a result, I consider the current mismatch between Woodcutting and its companions to be a temporary, but necessary, evil.

While the devs have admitted that M&S took a lot longer than expected, those skills arguably had the most content to rework, not to mention being the first such rework. Much had to be learned from trial and error; it was essentially reinventing the wheel. Due to the scope and uncertain nature of the project, the execution was predictably not perfect. Between the lengthiness of the process and the post-release stone spirit debacle, it's worth remembering how public opinion lurched decisively against large scale reworks following the release of M&S. These factors undoubtedly discouraged the undertaking of subsequent reworks.

As the recent Woodcutting rework shows, however, the trials and tribulations of M&S did not entirely dissuade such projects. It would seem that the devs strategically decided to pivot toward a narrative focus - i.e. what would become the EGW storyline - in accordance with the lessons of M&S, in order to prioritize what players most wanted at that time. Spirit of Forinthry ~ Runecrafting: Magic Armour ~ F2P Extensions ~ Dragon Slayer improvements ~ New Player Experience

25-Jun-2023 07:17:04

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I'd like to add something else for the comparison of mining and woodcutting. The acquisition of materials under ideal conditions (high to max levels, a tool fitting for that , potential other boosters) are leading to fairly comparable experience rates - unless you're trying to gather extremely low levelled things. Sure some things always are a tad bit better than others and especially mining is a bit more complex with all the interactions and synergies you could use, but it's not like you even could do a mistake of the sort of having maple/mahogany/yew/magic/whatever trees unlocked and jumping on them gleefully.

For woodcutting they've shown this with this graph in detail:

https://cdn.runescape.com/assets/img/external/news/2023/06/Woodcutters/graph1.png

When it comes to core trees you still can see that bias for the medium levelled ones - with maple having become an option for the first time - but it's not like, that cutting yew or magic is the poor choice it was before - while a crystal hatchet hasn't offered much of an advantage over the rune one, members had invention perks, an aura, an outfit and a skilling offhand, which brought things at least a bit towards their favour.

But this new graph assumes ideal conditions - which f2p can't fulfill at all with a hatchet 20 tiers lower than what it is supposed to be for a yew tree - and all the kinds of boosters missing. So while teak, maple and acadia will be a bit lower than for members, it will be significantly lower for that yew tree (and even moreso for magic if it still was even remotely imagineable for it ever to become f2p cutable). I just don't feel like that thing should remain there as some noob trap, solely for legacy reasons or for some players being able to feel bigger than they are. Of course right now it is the source for the t40 bow, but as said - eventually it will be taken over by maple. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

25-Jun-2023 08:08:32 - Last edited on 25-Jun-2023 08:35:42 by Rikornak

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

As much as I liked the m&s rework they went highly overboard with it - admittingly: They made more out of that skill, than just being the source for some ultra basic equipment - spikes, masterwork,... - all great things that certainly went beyond just fixing the very essence. For woodcutting they focused on the basic issues, kept the very same mechanics, but just made them work for the first time. There are a few things to fix left - as giving access to those specific trees and woodboxes - but other than that they shouldn't take too long to get fletching (especially that one, since this is the source of equipment) and firemaking to be fixed as well. But as I said - subpar as my magic tree cutting for imcando was - it hasn't felt wrong. I've understood even back in 2009 that mining coal is wrong. Even moreso for mithril then - adamant was just too beyond my reach. And the very same things with trees eventually...

But even just those core things make those skills so much more useful - especially for ironmen - I just can't say I am as motivated to get my skills up in OS for instance - since most features unlocked are low levelled crap - or something I just could buy from somebody else. Most skills in RS3 offer me something eventually (I mean for fletching - ignoring those new wood boxes - you literally could cut the first 80 levels right now and not too much would change, but beyond that this skill has some great exclusives) that eventually rewards me with something I couldn't have without that skill. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

25-Jun-2023 08:08:37 - Last edited on 25-Jun-2023 08:27:40 by Rikornak

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(F2P) QoL Improvements v2