RuneScape Forum Archive | (F2P) QoL Improvements v2

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Cleaned up a few things in the thread, since the basic conditions have changed a lot in the past 7 years and some the suggestions had been degraded from essentials not just to niche things (which is absolutely valid feedback, which still can upgrade the game for new players - or even things like FSW - or let's get absolutely insane - prestiging skills), but to nit-picking (such as completing certain sets, when not even the m&s reworked ones offers complete ones), which doesn't contribute much to the game - especially when equipment alternatives were offered over the course of years.

I think woodcutting itself will be a great skill following the rework today, but free players absolutely need to be given access to teak and acadia trees somehow. Other than that the feedback should no longer be 'give free players access to magic trees', but rather 'introduce an acadia bow and buff the magic one to something that is adequate for the levels you need for cutting and processing'. But that's no longer a woodcutting issue, but a fletching one then.

/Edit:

Seems like access to Teak and Acadia Trees and consecutively wood boxes above Willow is missing for f2p. That certainly has to be fixed.

Personally I totally adore how cleanly and fluently woodcutting suddenly plays - I said in one place it easily was the most broken skill currently in that game - and now - it for itself is great. Cutting magics trees in order to get my imcando hatchet and even without that hatchet as the level adequate tool, I can see steady progress. How is it for free players with a rune hatchet and yew logs?

Eventually they just have to fix the interaction with other skills other than construction, in which it already interweaves nicely as well. Something like that for firemaking and - especially - fletching - and they've already achieved so much with existing skills... Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

19-Jun-2023 07:59:34 - Last edited on 19-Jun-2023 18:18:24 by Rikornak

Gareth Drago

Posts: 40 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Rikornak said :
Seems like access to Teak and Acadia Trees and consecutively wood boxes above Willow is missing for f2p. That certainly has to be fixed.
Yes, it is - and yes, it should be fixed.
Original message details are unavailable.
Personally I totally adore how cleanly and fluently woodcutting suddenly plays - I said in one place it easily was the most broken skill currently in that game - and now - it for itself is great. Cutting magics trees in order to get my imcando hatchet and even without that hatchet as the level adequate tool, I can see steady progress. How is it for free players with a rune hatchet and yew logs?
As a pure F2P with a rune hatchet, I honestly see no difference between chopping yew logs before and after this week's update. I achieved Woodcutting level 83 just this afternoon after chopping yews to complete a daily challenge.
Original message details are unavailable.
Eventually they just have to fix the interaction with other skills other than construction, in which it already interweaves nicely as well. Something like that for firemaking and - especially - fletching - and they've already achieved so much with existing skills...
I would agree. For free players, there has long been a bias against Woodcutting in favor of Firemaking and Fletching. The imbalance is now even more glaring. I would prefer Jagex make adjustments to the other skills, rather than simply block F2P from all but the most basic content.

It has been quite some time since I relied on willow trees to level Woodcutting. Yes, we still have access to maples and yews - but with no access to the related wood boxes, it limits wood boxes to strictly low-level items for F2P. Not all free players are low-level newbies. Saradomin be with you.

22-Jun-2023 20:59:05

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

The issue is - the yew tree is now correctly classified as a t70 tree - you on the other hand only got a drastically underlevelled t50 rune hatchet as the best in slot item - which naturally gimps down your cutting rates. You could tree to mine runite ore with a mithril pickaxe for some similar - you will see subpar performance. Granted woodcutting doesn't double-punish you for using inadequate tools, but it's obvious, that you should have something better at your disposal.

I basically did some magic tree cutting with the t5 woodcutting aura, the nature sentinel outfit, the fyrtorch offhand and some unaugmented crystal hatchet (which technically is underlevelled as well by 10 tiers) in order to receive my imcando hatchet and I got some decent results. Nothing too insane, but not even remotely comparable with the crap we had had before. Could certainly be better if I would use that fancy new hatchet with augments I guess.

On the other hand you should be able to see some more than adequate results with cutting maple now - which also was extremely sluggish up to monday (like basically every single tree above teak - with the exception of that acadia - but let's be real: nobody has cut maple, yew or magic for extended amount of times). Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

23-Jun-2023 12:04:58 - Last edited on 23-Jun-2023 12:06:38 by Rikornak

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I am honest - the second Jagex made Teak and Acadia trees available to free players and they've introduced fletchable equipment available for free players from those, they should tag the yew tree as p2p only. You also can't mine necrite either after all, despite it being available in the free world. If it's as easy as it sounds now might be something different, since there could be interactions I could not see right now, but those should be transferred to other f2p trees.

In general I do think - with an acadia wood box and the access to acadia trees it will be an extremely viable training method with just a rune hatchet. Entirely possible that even with firemaking and fletching fixed as well it's possible for free players to keep their access to yew trees for legacy reasons - but there is no chance you'll be able to use a yew box - or any hatchet better than a rune one. T50 roughly is the cut-off point, where things start to become exclusively p2p content - which the yew tree historically was - even with its overinflated requirements it basically always just spilled out some t40 materials - which was top tier stuff pre-eoc and still is among the penultimate things. But this just must be taken over by the actual t40 tree now - maple. And acadia has to take over the role currently held by magic. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

23-Jun-2023 12:05:47

Aslon Dak

Posts: 10,543 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Gareth Drago said :
Rikornak said :
Personally I totally adore how cleanly and fluently woodcutting suddenly plays - I said in one place it easily was the most broken skill currently in that game - and now - it for itself is great. Cutting magics trees in order to get my imcando hatchet and even without that hatchet as the level adequate tool, I can see steady progress. How is it for free players with a rune hatchet and yew logs?
As a pure F2P with a rune hatchet, I honestly see no difference between chopping yew logs before and after this week's update. I achieved Woodcutting level 83 just this afternoon after chopping yews to complete a daily challenge.
Original message details are unavailable.
Eventually they just have to fix the interaction with other skills other than construction, in which it already interweaves nicely as well. Something like that for firemaking and - especially - fletching - and they've already achieved so much with existing skills...
I would agree. For free players, there has long been a bias against Woodcutting in favor of Firemaking and Fletching. The imbalance is now even more glaring. I would prefer Jagex make adjustments to the other skills, rather than simply block F2P from all but the most basic content.

It has been quite some time since I relied on willow trees to level Woodcutting. Yes, we still have access to maples and yews - but with no access to the related wood boxes, it limits wood boxes to strictly low-level items for F2P. Not all free players are low-level newbies.
I have not timed how long it takes me to get a full inventory of T70 yew logs versus the previous T60 yew logs, but I have not noticed any significant drop in my log gathering rate - but then, I got 98 Woodcutting last week, so I would expect very little impact on my game.

I was glad Jagex did not simply block F2P from chopping maples or yews. That would have been idiotic, and needlessly punishing. Aslon Dak: Still 'Scaping after 19 years!
You can buy XP. You can't buy experience.
"...From The 'Scape" is very nearly here.

24-Jun-2023 04:38:06

Aslon Dak

Posts: 10,543 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Rikornak said :
The issue is - the yew tree is now correctly classified as a t70 tree - you on the other hand only got a drastically underlevelled t50 rune hatchet as the best in slot item - which naturally gimps down your cutting rates. You could tree to mine runite ore with a mithril pickaxe for some similar - you will see subpar performance. Granted woodcutting doesn't double-punish you for using inadequate tools, but it's obvious, that you should have something better at your disposal.

I basically did some magic tree cutting with the t5 woodcutting aura, the nature sentinel outfit, the fyrtorch offhand and some unaugmented crystal hatchet (which technically is underlevelled as well by 10 tiers) in order to receive my imcando hatchet and I got some decent results. Nothing too insane, but not even remotely comparable with the crap we had had before. Could certainly be better if I would use that fancy new hatchet with augments I guess.

On the other hand you should be able to see some more than adequate results with cutting maple now - which also was extremely sluggish up to monday (like basically every single tree above teak - with the exception of that acadia - but let's be real: nobody has cut maple, yew or magic for extended amount of times).
Mining and Woodcutting have a few important differences.

For starters, you cannot mine runite with a mithril pickaxe, whereas you can chop higher-tiered trees with a lower-tiered hatchet. It will be slower, of course, but it can be done.

I would also point out that rune pickaxes, for example, can be upgraded to rune +3 items, while there is no similar option for hatchets. Maybe there could be in the future.

I have chopped both maples and yews (more often yews, both for XP as well as convenience) for extended periods of time, in order to complete Woodcutting tasks on Yak Tracks. I have also chopped yews socially in Edgeville and in Lumbridge while chatting with others. Aslon Dak: Still 'Scaping after 19 years!
You can buy XP. You can't buy experience.
"...From The 'Scape" is very nearly here.

24-Jun-2023 05:10:59

Aslon Dak

Posts: 10,543 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Rikornak said :
I am honest - the second Jagex made Teak and Acadia trees available to free players and they've introduced fletchable equipment available for free players from those, they should tag the yew tree as p2p only. You also can't mine necrite either after all, despite it being available in the free world. If it's as easy as it sounds now might be something different, since there could be interactions I could not see right now, but those should be transferred to other f2p trees.

In general I do think - with an acadia wood box and the access to acadia trees it will be an extremely viable training method with just a rune hatchet. Entirely possible that even with firemaking and fletching fixed as well it's possible for free players to keep their access to yew trees for legacy reasons - but there is no chance you'll be able to use a yew box - or any hatchet better than a rune one. T50 roughly is the cut-off point, where things start to become exclusively p2p content - which the yew tree historically was - even with its overinflated requirements it basically always just spilled out some t40 materials - which was top tier stuff pre-eoc and still is among the penultimate things. But this just must be taken over by the actual t40 tree now - maple. And acadia has to take over the role currently held by magic.
I do agree it may be time to rework Firemaking and Fletching in F2P, especially when it comes to magic logs.

I strongly disagree with the notion of making yews exclusively P2P items. That would be the absolute worst course of action Jagex could take. I have long pointed out how unfairly Woodcutting has been limited in F2P, compared to both Firemaking and Fletching. It is ridiculous that free players can burn and fletch magic logs, yet we cannot chop them. The Woodcutting update made things more unbalanced - and you want to punish F2P woodcutters ever further?

No. Just no. Aslon Dak: Still 'Scaping after 19 years!
You can buy XP. You can't buy experience.
"...From The 'Scape" is very nearly here.

24-Jun-2023 05:38:57

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

There is no reason to block access to maple trees, since they're literally intended to fill out the t40 niche eventually - basically the equivalent to adamant. Issue more is that f2p is lacking the equivalents to mithril and runite - but for some random reason got necrite.

In general you are forced (unless you go for special pickaxes like dragon, crystal, imcando and e&s - which is quite some effort, but entirely possible before reaching the respective tiers) the first couple of ores with the pickaxe of the previous tier (of course - one tier, not two) then go and smith your new pickaxe to have level adequate rates. It is entirely possible - but as I said, it's highly gimped. The +x variants are extremely insignificant in contrary - and that's probably why they haven't even bothered to roll that system over to mattocks with archaeology - which also allow you to gather things with lower levelled ones - but the amount of progress required for higher tiers rises so extremely, you just will always want the level adequate one to keep up - and even then you won't be able to fully. I am fairly sure it won't be too different for this newly thought woodcutting - even though the game doesn't give you details about things like cutting power and tree hardiness.

I am not saying it wasn't possible - it just wasn't feasible. The best to cut tree for free players always was willow (just compare the xp/h to maple... you were losing out something like a third or so) - for p2p it was teak, then acadia. Yak track obviously doesn't allow you to cut either of those trees for later tasks and while I think it could work with maple, no member would have been braindead enough to try cutting 600 yew, magic or elder logs - you would have finished the skill/kill alternative long before that (unless you can cheese a yew option with a divine tree and the dwarven chainaxe...) - they rather sticked to bamboo, but core trees above acadia were a no go. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

24-Jun-2023 05:56:26 - Last edited on 24-Jun-2023 06:12:23 by Rikornak

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

As said as it stands now you are literally lacking t30 and t50 trees - and even if they were available - they're outright disfunctional when it comes to fletching. If those two issues were fixed - and yew being fully changed to the t70 material it is supposed to be - what justification would be there for it to remain f2p. You obviously can't use the bow anymore, so you would want to cut them for legacy reasons alone...

Again. Maple is supposed to take over the role currently held by Yew (it just doesn't yet). Acadia is supposed to take over the role currently held by Magic (it also just doesn't yet). Those trees are literally supposed to be the equivalents of adamant and runite . For either it currently isn't the case, so obviously you shouldn't lose access to yew right now . But as soon as this is fixed you've gained access to two new tiers of trees and their associated features and would lose to one, which is way beyond your reach.

While both skill sets suffered from the same dumb design decisions made back then in 2001, they were solved in some entirely different fashions. Mining (and smithing) were changed to have the materials what they are (low and medium levelled things, that historically had had insanely overinflated requirements (so yeah - runite obviously always was/is some t40/50 material - so that is within the f2p scope even though the level might have suggested otherwise), woodcutting (and construction, but so far not firemaking and fletching) had had those materials changed to what they're supposed to be (higher medium and high levelled things, that just historically were extremely underlevelled, yet had had insanely overinflated requirements). So why exactly do you want some tree, that isn't of any use to you, when you received adequate replacements? Is it for legacy reasons only? Since yeah - yew won't be that t40 material anymore you currently think it is. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

24-Jun-2023 06:09:29 - Last edited on 24-Jun-2023 06:13:49 by Rikornak

Aslon Dak

Posts: 10,543 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I get what your saying about the T50 "cut-off", Rikornak, but this is more of a guideline than a hard rule.

In addition to now being able to burn and fletch T70 and T80 logs (at least for now), there are other exceptions to the T50 limit.

F2P has some T55 and T60 gear options, including Gud Raider, Corrupt Dragon, Gravite weapons, and T60 Dungeoneering gear. Then there is upgraded rune gear +3, the best F2P melee gear.

Another Dungeoneering exception is Runecrafting. F2P can even craft death runes while Dungeoneering, which normally requires level 65 Runecrafting, as well as membership. Sure, it's just Dungeoneering. Still, it's an exception to the "rule".

Some rebalancing may be in order. Generally speaking, it will not be the worst thing for RuneScape if free players are allowed access to a little bit of higher-end content, provided they have the skill levels, of course.

. Aslon Dak: Still 'Scaping after 19 years!
You can buy XP. You can't buy experience.
"...From The 'Scape" is very nearly here.

24-Jun-2023 06:13:09

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(F2P) QoL Improvements v2