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(F2P) QoL Improvements v2

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schlesy

schlesy

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I like your arrow suggestions from a p2p perspective, but they would come with the issue we have yet another piece of equipment that isn't available to f2p ironmen (in this case even a best in slot one), so free players would need hardwood access somehow. I'll refer to this post (and include the bolt rework from page 18) though.
Yeah, I've been wondering about it as well, so I asked Mod Stu beforehand about ways to get the logs as a f2p. He mentioned that teak logs could be gained from fire spirits, similar to magic logs.
Mahagony he didn't find f2p ways, but since it's main usage in my original design was tier 65 for members, I didn't bother about it then.
If I need to rethink tier 35, I guess we could use swordfish scales, or even introduce a new fish which would be used only in flecthing, but more simply, I'd take them into KBD drop table instead of the magic logs, which should be cuttable by f2p.

09-May-2018 19:09:48

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

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I guess if we were to go with fire spirits a more complex solution could be tiering with logs (e.g. burning better logs will spawn better spirits). As for magic logs I guess the excuse was to retain their value, but to be honest: what value?

Another option would be we're leaving the hardwood shafts entirely out and just have it work like the bolts - the fish scale will replace the regular arrow tip - progression could work up to tier 60 like this: Crayfish -> herring/makarel -> trout/cod/pike -> salmon/tuna/rainbow fish -> lobster -> bass/swordfish/desert sole -> catfish/monkfish.

Those levels would be roughly fitting as per their fishing levels - a higher levelled fish within a certain category could award additional scales (or fewer in case of the bass) of that type Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

10-May-2018 07:00:08 - Last edited on 10-May-2018 07:08:28 by Rikornak

schlesy

schlesy

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Another option would be we're leaving the hardwood shafts entirely out and just have it work like the bolts - the fish scale will replace the regular arrow tip - progression could work up to tier 60 like this: Crayfish -> herring/makarel -> trout/cod/pike -> salmon/tuna/rainbow fish -> lobster -> bass/swordfish/desert sole -> catfish/monkfish.

Those levels would be roughly fitting as per their fishing levels - a higher levelled fish within a certain category could award additional scales (or fewer in case of the bass) of that type
Two notes on these tiers: First, desert sole looks too slimy to have any scales. Same with monkfish.
Second, I'm not sure lobsters would be making good tips. I did use crayfish, but they are mainly used as lower level tips, made from their claws, which are pretty small. Lobster claws are too big to be a tip, even if you cut them to half, and are too much of a whole to be breaking down to small bits.

I do like it to some extent, but I guess I'm too well fond of my concept to give it up for some small problems which might appear.

10-May-2018 19:56:03

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

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...

I must admit and went through by a purely game mechanical approach with those fish in here in order to have a clean progression (we should try and prevent having higher requirements to create certain equipment than to use it (e.g. players shouldn't need multiple skills in the 50s in order to create t35 ammunition, when even that runite stuff will be finally fixed at some point this year). The second issue would be the obtainability with ironmen for higher tiered tips.

All in all it's really not easy to find an ideal solution (I also think I haven't changed anything in this thread (and its predecessor) as often as the entry for t55 ammo). Ideallly that solution should also be able to be implemented quickly.

When going through your notes I would shift the rainbow fish and the bass into the lobster niche, but that would lead to just having two p2p fish in there (and otherwise we do not have anything else in the 40s). I guess we should put game mechanic over logic in here, as the former shouldn't suffer because of the latter (unless we're having serious issues in here). And I guess we've already seen worse both in the genre in general and runescape specifically.

As for levels I think the base tier of the regular arrow would be the level required to obtain the tips from the fish and the tier of the improved arrows would be the level required to apply the tips.

Of course yet another option would be if gem tips could be used to replace arrow tips like they already do with bolts, but I'd personally prefer those fish scales actually. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

11-May-2018 06:50:36 - Last edited on 11-May-2018 06:51:16 by Rikornak

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

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Support the ideas for F2P, a lot of it needs to be rebalanced and/or added to.

Also, maybe add the Void Outpost, Pest Control and Conquest to F2P. Brings an extra (good) minigame to the mix.

Thank you for your input.

I guess it would be a piece of content that could be added fairly easily (easy and intermediate landers and maybe a set of of basic void knight armour). I won't suggest it in here though as I try to keep the thread focused on gameplay improvements. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

11-May-2018 06:54:48

schlesy

schlesy

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I must admit and went through by a purely game mechanical approach with those fish in here in order to have a clean progression (we should try and prevent having higher requirements to create certain equipment than to use it (e.g. players shouldn't need multiple skills in the 50s in order to create t35 ammunition, when even that runite stuff will be finally fixed at some point this year). The second issue would be the obtainability with ironmen for higher tiered tips. Well, on this point I am going to disagree. T35 overall is a niche, and as such, it should not require higher level in fletching than the tier above it, but might include higher gathering requirements.(not at the 90's, but if maple is from 45 to 30, 50 to 35 is reasonable)

Original message details are unavailable.
When going through your notes I would shift the rainbow fish and the bass into the lobster niche, but that would lead to just having two p2p fish in there (and otherwise we do not have anything else in the 40s). I guess we should put game mechanic over logic in here, as the former shouldn't suffer because of the latter (unless we're having serious issues in here). Or, we could return to my old suggestion of making big net fishing f2p. We were speaking of pearls, but we could also give bass.

Of course, we could also return to my Lapis suggestion for 45, even if it's not fish scales. It was made based on current gem cutting levels, and was based on putting Lapis as something between the semi-precious and the precious gems.

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As for levels I think the base tier of the regular arrow would be the level required to obtain the tips from the fish and the tier of the improved arrows would be the level required to apply the tips. I must confess, I don't recall any place these two flecthing steps had separate levels. Wouldn't start with it now.

12-May-2018 23:12:00

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Original message details are unavailable.
Original message details are unavailable.
I must admit and went through by a purely game mechanical approach with those fish in here in order to have a clean progression (we should try and prevent having higher requirements to create certain equipment than to use it (e.g. players shouldn't need multiple skills in the 50s in order to create t35 ammunition, when even that runite stuff will be finally fixed at some point this year). The second issue would be the obtainability with ironmen for higher tiered tips. Well, on this point I am going to disagree. T35 overall is a niche, and as such, it should not require higher level in fletching than the tier above it, but might include higher gathering requirements.(not at the 90's, but if maple is from 45 to 30, 50 to 35 is reasonable)

I just do not think new content should come already designed with the very same faults as the old content is. Jagex isn't very consequent on those terms (see like how carapace and batwing (pre-nerf, albeit was adjusted again) came out with reasonable levels (crafting levels equal to equipment level - they're both higher levelled than studded armour, but need lower crafting levels)), while other stuff isn't (e.g. dark and stalker arrows)). But that reminds me I should fix the fletching staves suggestion at one point...

Even though nothing new is nearly as broken as melee equipment from mithril onwards (if we're ignoring batwing when they forgot to lower the crafting levels alongside the tier), it still isn't solved adequately - and has to be manually fixed with a rework, causing even more work (which is likely the reason why Jagex tried to split the M/S rework - first the new content, then the old one fixed - gladly the community voted against this approach). Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

13-May-2018 06:06:46 - Last edited on 13-May-2018 06:57:31 by Rikornak

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

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All in all I must admit I prefer the dungeoneering progression (e.g. you're unlocking t50 armour pieces with smithing levels from 50-59) instead of the new smithing one (e.g. you're unlocking the full t50 set at smithing 50) - simply for the sake of meaningful levels, it wouldn't be bad as long as things aren't too off.

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Or, we could return to my old suggestion of making big net fishing f2p. We were speaking of pearls, but we could also give bass.

Of course, we could also return to my Lapis suggestion for 45, even if it's not fish scales. It was made based on current gem cutting levels, and was based on putting Lapis as something between the semi-precious and the precious gems.

In terms of progression lapis would be the second lowest gem - you can cut it at level 1 like the opal, but craft the respective ring slightly later (opal: 2, lapis 11) - so it could replace pearls in a gem-arrow progression (e.g. for the t15 one then). I do not think low levelled items should be used that lately once more as a component for equipment, but more like in that glorious bars system (you need one of each kind of bar to create it and smith t90/92 armour from it eventually). Or for potions as a secondary ingredient.

Original message details are unavailable.
I must confess, I don't recall any place these two flecthing steps had separate levels. Wouldn't start with it now.

Gem-tipping bolts needs a higher level than the base bolt (e.g. bronze would be 9, opal 11), improved arrows should of course work like this as well. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

13-May-2018 06:27:06 - Last edited on 13-May-2018 06:56:35 by Rikornak

schlesy

schlesy

Posts: 123 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
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In terms of progression lapis would be the second lowest gem - you can cut it at level 1 like the opal, but craft the respective ring slightly later (opal: 2, lapis 11) - so it could replace pearls in a gem-arrow progression (e.g. for the t15 one then). I do not think low levelled items should be used that lately once more as a component for equipment, but more like in that glorious bars system (you need one of each kind of bar to create it and smith t90/92 armour from it eventually). Or for potions as a secondary ingredient. I do understand your claim, yet I kind of feel to disagree. Gem bolts are too filled already, so I suggested moving lapis into arrows, which does need more tiers.
Looking at it gem wise, I'd say Lapis is more like 'less than sapphire' than 'similar to opal', at least from my point of view.(It's jewellery is better than the rest of the semi-precious, but less than any of the precious gems, seeing it has non-degrading pieces.) Of course, this is a point of view, and it's legit to think otherwise. Under this point of view, tier 45 arrows would be well slotted.

Another thing I might call up now, is the Hardwood stocks. Rather than converting them to maple/yew, keep them as stocks for the half tier crossbows. Create a lvl 25 silver crossbow with teak stock, similar to the blurite half tier from oak. The tier 35 crossbow could be made with adamant, making a little worse crossbow, or from mithril, creating a better crossbow from the same metal.
Tier 45(or 55) should be fletchable from an added drop to the KBD, perhaps as an upgrade.

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I must confess, I don't recall any place these two flecthing steps had separate levels. Wouldn't start with it now.
I was speaking of cutting opal to bolt tips and tiping bolts with opal, which always happen together. Not making the basic bolt, which comes a bit before.

13-May-2018 20:17:29

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