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(F2P) QoL Improvements v2

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Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

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As per my imagination I really would expect necromancy to be summoning-esque at least, possibly using the thrall concept from OS to work in tandem with summoning in some fashion, maybe also involving creating servants for specific pieces of content.

Interestingly enough, the thralls concept from OS is basically the idea they already had had in RSC - a set of spells included in the standard spellbook (rather than a necromancy based spellbook as in OS): https://classic.runescape.wiki/w/Summoning_spells

As I said before, you can only speculate about what a new skill will be, so I most likely will assume they'll go a different approach, if this skill was to provide more value than just being a summoning and/or magic extension packaged in an entirely new skill. A lot of players concepted necromancy as an elite skill based on summoning, magic and prayer for that matter, but as I said, I am fairly sure Invention will remain the only one of that kind - but with Osborne gone everything's possible again. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

14-Dec-2022 06:49:31 - Last edited on 14-Dec-2022 07:28:54 by Rikornak

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
As for the MTA - that's a bit curious. I was perfectly able to access the garden on a free world (and I don't think, that membership should have any effect on that). The trees also were there, albeit I wasn't able to cut them. As said - cutting those trees as they currently to obtain logs for training isn't feasible at all - the rates are mediocre at best even if you use everything the game has to offer: an augmented crystal hatchet, the elite outfit, the fyrtorch, the aura, the ring of shadows... as an ironman you're just better with cutting something like a willow (or with gritted teeth maple) tree and processing those logs then afterwards. The logs are as low as they are, since a lot of monsters in p2p are dropping them in better rates than you'd ever could cut them - but if it's just for the purpose to make yourself a magic shortbow, the KBD is more than viable enough.

Woodcutting just is one of the most broken skills right now and at least would deserve at least a rudimentary revamp - fixed levels and fixed cutting rates with appropriate tools for existing trees. Everything beyond that (that also includes changes to related skills and adjusting loot tables to make woodcutting more valubale) could be done later - nobody would care, that the game has no core trees above t60 - it's basically not even different to what we got now and that still would infinitely better than status quo. Of course just giving f2p access to those trees also would an improvement, but I can't imagine they would even be highly used in the first place as they stand. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

14-Dec-2022 06:50:11 - Last edited on 14-Dec-2022 06:57:15 by Rikornak

Seasons Past

Seasons Past

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How would you (Rikornak or Aslon, or anyone) feel about this proposal, in the spirit of a Woodcutting/Fletching rework:

1) Woodcutting resources would no longer be obtained as monster/boss drops. Instead, all logs would be harvested through Woodcutting, like elder logs.

2) Fletching unstrung bows would be updated to take longer but award more experience per bow. Similarly, each set of logs would take longer to burn but would award more XP in Firemaking.

3) Rates of obtaining wood from various kinds of trees would be adjusted as necessary.

The hope is that the above would make yew and magic logs more valuable so that they would be worthwhile to chop, while not catastrophically unbalancing the associated skills. Spirit of Forinthry ~ Runecrafting: Magic Armour ~ F2P Extensions ~ Dragon Slayer improvements ~ New Player Experience

15-Dec-2022 03:35:51

Seasons Past

Seasons Past

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The Mage Training arena garden might be an example of an area that can be accessed on F2P worlds, but only by members. I recall that when I've visited Armadyl's Tower on both F2P and P2P accounts, it seems that only P2P accounts were able to speak with Armadyl. However, if I had membership, my character was able to speak with him even if I was on a F2P world. Spirit of Forinthry ~ Runecrafting: Magic Armour ~ F2P Extensions ~ Dragon Slayer improvements ~ New Player Experience

15-Dec-2022 03:41:28

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
In general - I do not mind if resources can be obtained via PvM, but obviously it shouldn't be obtained in such numbers it just outclasses the skilling method - that was an issue for ores above iron (since that was the final ore, you really were able to feasibly mine pre rework - afaik that's partially given some unique feature of iron OS recently extended to other ores - dunno if other ores are viable for training now though), that was an issue for most herbs (with the exception of lower levelled ones, arbuck and bloodwood, with the latter two only available as seeds all over the game) and it obviously is an issue for yew and magic logs.

What also needs to be kept in mind - loot tables should be appealing enough without lots and lots of direct coins influx and alch junk. Salvage was an adequate replacement, since it literally just replaced alch junk with alch junk. Stone spirits were a heavy degradation for all former ore (and especially bar) droppers, even double if something like a lava noodle now drops adamant spirits even 4 years later. Seeds instead of herbs also devalued those bosses, but that's more given the fact they do not drop as generously as the herbs previously did (I mean - when some 70 herb stack got replaced by a meager 3 seeds...). Also important in here - they only replaced herb drops at bosses, who drop them in much bigger numbers. Slayer was left untouched - solely a reduction of those who dropped a lot of herbs at a time (i.e. abyssal lords dropped 10 herbs before the update, now 4). But overall the farming rework was much more felicitous than the mining one for that matter. Leaves obviously to think what they should exactly do about yew and magic logs specifically - it's not an issue for any other kind of log. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

15-Dec-2022 07:33:12 - Last edited on 15-Dec-2022 20:15:07 by Rikornak

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

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I am not super fond of that fletching proposal, but I think it's really hard to make something appealing in there - The mechanic used for smithing makes sense there, since you increase the quality of metal by constantly reforging it. But just increasing the time required to process a material, while increasing the xp awarded, just makes the raw material less appealing, while increasing the value of the finished product. Of course that can be used as a mechanic if the general supply is reduced as well. But in general I think fletching and firemaking would be off better as a mass production skill.

As for woodcutting - it's important to take the base experience rate of the last non-broken tree: Acadia. While the xp per log is fine for yew, magic and elder - the cutting rates are so miserable you just end up with significantly lower experience per hour. They need to be increased in such a matter you actually have some kind of progressing after level 47, if the supply was to be kept low they could drastically increase xp per log instead. I think it also might help if the elder tree mechanics are introduced to yew and magic - you no longer compete with other players for them, but the tree takes way longer to respawn, forcing you to cycle available locations.

I can't check it with a f2p account for now, since I only have the steam client installed on my machine right now, but usually NPCs either have different dialogues (like the three blokes at the chemist in rimmington) or do not spawn at all on free worlds, but in general you're as a member treated the same way as a free player on free worlds - you can't pass boundaries you're not intended to pass as a free player - be it hard ones like a gate or just some p2p flagged tiles like the south eastern corner of the wilderness, which perfectly were accessible on free worlds, but just pushed players back when they wanted to get there. The MTA garden is no hard boundary for that matter - you just can walk into it. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

15-Dec-2022 07:46:18 - Last edited on 15-Dec-2022 07:50:56 by Rikornak

Seasons Past

Seasons Past

Posts: 559 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
If yew/magic trees and logs are lowered to level 40/50, there would probably be enough supply from Woodcutting to justify removing them from bosses without changing the mechanics of Fletching and Firemaking.

I do think it would make sense for the more advanced trees to expire like elders. You know - because of their age.

And also because Woodcutting I believe is the last non-combat skill to still be affected by direct competition for resources. I don't see a reason not to fix this as was done for Mining. Spirit of Forinthry ~ Runecrafting: Magic Armour ~ F2P Extensions ~ Dragon Slayer improvements ~ New Player Experience

21-Dec-2022 18:53:18

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

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Archaeology caches also are competed resources (I really wonder how they could have pulled off something like this in 2020) and while fishing isn't directly competed, multiple players fishing at once cause them to move faster (not sure if that was directly confirmed, but it was well observable in both the arc and menaphos, which heavily included fishing needed for progression).

While logs are not even remotely as valuable as ores, bars or herbs were, I think they can contribute for a diversification of loot tables - of course it's an issue when a special wilderness flash event can spill out 500something magic logs at once - since I am fairly sure I haven't cut that many in either game over my whole game time. But everything you get rid off causes other things to drop more commonly, dragging their value down.

Question is - what is acceptable as common loot from PvM? Obviously salvage and other direct GP drops, as well as skilling supplies as raw as possible. I'll assume the next thing they may replace are runes with anima stones, which also potentially can drag PvM value down further. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

22-Dec-2022 06:21:20 - Last edited on 22-Dec-2022 06:23:43 by Rikornak

Seasons Past

Seasons Past

Posts: 559 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Now that you mention it, I recall the material caches being a flashpoint of controversy early in the days of Archaeology. Was a reasonable explanation provided for this? It seems the question was left unanswered. I guess fish would swim faster if there are more big land-monsters throwing stringy splashy things down into their home. Then again, if this was to be in any way contingent upon actual realistic considerations, the fish would have swum away by now.

I wouldn't be qualified to weigh in on boss drop specifics, but it does seem like there is a conflict at play. If bosses have to drop raw materials to be profitable, then that means skilling and PvM are doomed to an eternal struggle for control of the market, with only one emerging as dominant creator of currency.

On a less bloodstained note, why don't bosses drop us tips more often? I imagine they're busy working out how to purify the essence of their business strategy.

If the strategy involves Runecrafting, essence might actually work as a replacement for runes, as it's necessary for production, unlike stone spirits.

To elaborate on the comparison of rune essence and stone spirits:

Without rune essence, there can be no rune
Without rune, there is no runestone
Without runestone, there is no stone
Without stone, there are no stone spirits
Without stone spirits, there is no lack of spirits
For spirits are not what we mined.
Spirit of Forinthry ~ Runecrafting: Magic Armour ~ F2P Extensions ~ Dragon Slayer improvements ~ New Player Experience

22-Dec-2022 09:03:34 - Last edited on 22-Dec-2022 09:45:44 by Seasons Past

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I don't think they've ever given a reason for the caches to be as they are - albeit sure, it was an issue, that solved itself eventually. There probably are other examples of what kind of content isn't really multi player compatible (other than a lot of combat related things that is), but that basically was a thing they mostly kept in mind in the past decade - just not for arch for whatever reason.

In general I wouldn't call rune essence as super appealing loot (it's usually also rather a slayer thing), but as it stands it drops in sufficient numbers, since the rune essence mine as is isn't a viable source to gain essence for yourself (less thought of a regular account, who could just buy them from other players, but as an ironman who has to gain essences by himself). What they probably should do is re-consolidating regular and pure essence into one kind - since pure usually is worth less than regular, which shouldn't be (but that's given, that regular essence barely is dropped). Otherwise - pure essence could give more xp than regular ones... but that's probably too far fetched when it's about designing appealing loot. Going by an xp route they could introduce a third kind of essence being worth even more xp (that's inspired by the untradeable daeyalt essence from OS - albeit that one is mined for yourself again).

In here I was refering to anima stones though, which were released alongside the farming/pickpocketing rework, as part of the loot of the new thieving targets.

https://runescape.wiki/w/Elemental_anima_stone
https://runescape.wiki/w/Catalytic_anima_stone

Those things would exist already, so they basically could replace any (or a lot of existing) rune drops by those. With only two kinds existing, we also wouldn't have the stone spirit issue of high levelled creatures dropping low levelled spirits - albeit it's possible those stones will be unfeasible to use for a lot of runes then... Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

22-Dec-2022 10:53:18 - Last edited on 22-Dec-2022 10:55:01 by Rikornak

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