RuneScape Forum Archive | Option to mute F2P guests?

Tribelewits

Posts: 1,123 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I agree, that it is merely a patch on an open wound, and that the problem should need fixing on the base. However my idea on how we could atleast have some way of investigating / determining how big, what and where the problem is, got Shot down
Plz refrein from reacting to the above link in this thread, react in that thread regarding the suggestion there.

Anyway on topic

I am also a fan of the whitelist idea and i can understand what u say, and agree, with the whole handeling "spam f2p account making"
However, that's clearly not happening due to numerous reasons, which i do not underestimate btw.

So i'm suggesting an extra tool, which can be used TEMPORARILY at the time it is needed the most. Cause closing our cc for visitors is not an option .
For some reason you seem to be taking this muting f2p to block f2p spammers whenever it suits us (eg, when s*** hits the fan) (eg not always, as we do have f2p guests who are welcome) when they are very persistant trolling our p2p clan, as an insult to every f2p out there.

I can't understand how 1) this is more discrimination then any other requirement a clan has. And 2) how this OPTION which can be used in a worst case scenario is seen as a simple tool to fight trolls when needed, rather then, apparently, hell on earth.

For those saying close the cc's,

so we should punish a possible 1000 members not having access or having the option to talk in another cc. Including our admins, who are meant to keep order in any of our community's clans, when, at that time no admin is on, in the other clan.
Only to contain 1 or 2 spam f2p alt creators?

In my book, closing the f2p talk in times when trolls are bored is way less harming then closing the possibility to talk from one clannie to another, which happens to be in a different part of our community. And taking away the admin+ power to at least talk in another cc. Proud Co-Owner of the Wolf
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20-Apr-2016 11:13:57

Mar

2013

Liouxcie

Posts: 6 Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I'm pretty sure a lot of the replies here are reading way into this and are seeing this as a "class" issue. Please, PC police, look at the original thread - From what Tribelewits is asking is a temporary measure to MUTE (not to kick/not allow to enter) F2P members TEMPORARILY . I have had issues with these F2P alts entering our cc after their main P2P account has been kick/banned. They have used this method to spy on when our events will be to crash them to disrupt the event, and also to spam the cc. Yes I have tried pming them being reasonable to ask them to stop entering the cc. We usually end up having to keep kicking these alts (in which an admin has to be online to do so), or muting guesting options - again in which an admin has to be online for to turn on and off.

Muting the entire guest chat is not as option, we have guests continuously as our main cc is the link to the other two clans. I don't see how having a "mute only F2P" is less discriminatory than a "mute only guests" option.

I'm in support of this. Stop being so sensitive, this isn't an elistist issue, it's about stopping the trolls we all have to deal with.

20-Apr-2016 12:55:12

Vera

Posts: 16,334 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

One of the core tenets of the CLF is that we respect how others choose to run their clans.

Fire Hawk

, a lot of your arguments are based on your subjective morals. I view it as unprofessional to disrespect the clan styles of others by imposing your values over theirs. I know that I'm coming off as disrespectful for making this personal, but that's because I don't know how not to make this personal while communicating to you what I'm observing. I apologize for not having the emotional intelligence to handle this more professionally, and the reason why I'm not telling you this in private chat is because I'm not online, I'm too lazy, and I don't care enough about your actions for me to put in that effort.

Agreed with

Esploratore

about how the ability to mute f2p guests is only a band-aid that addresses the symptoms but not the source of a problem.

Again, how I deal with trolls is I respectfully pm them IN PRIVATE CHAT, because if you try to talk to them in the clan channe (with an audience), both your ego and the troll's are trying to one up each other. You have less of that in private chat. And in private chat, you humanize the troll by making things personal by asking them about themselves, and if that doesn't work, you continue to not rise to the bait and instead psychologically make them very uneasy by saying things like "oh, you're so cute, I love you ^_^

"

Some people don't prefer that method, because they don't want to invest personal time trying to subdue a troll in this manner. That's totally fine, they can use other solutions. In that case, the next best thing I would do is to not respond to the troll at all--*at all*. Not even a "Oh, do I hear the sound of wind?" either, because that acknowledgment will encourage the troll to fish for incriminating side talk, anything to latch on to and to take offense at.

These are ways I deal with the occasional troll. Otherwise, I support the *option* to bar f2p guests.

VIVLOVESVIX

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20-Apr-2016 14:50:23

Seer of War

Posts: 13,968 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I would actually take this idea one step further and suggest a feature to only allow members (or f2p) accounts to join a clan channel as a guest. Additional categories could be added to include filters such as Membership Status, Combat Level, Total Level, Ironman Status, and potentially even Quest Points and additional criteria. These could be adjusted to suit a clan's needs, with boxes being checked or unchecked to enable or disable each filter.

Seer of War

Founder | The Order of War

2600+ Total Level International Tier 7 Citadel, PvM, and Skilling Clan Community

20-Apr-2016 15:47:38

Vera

Posts: 16,334 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Seer of War said :

I would actually take this idea one step further and suggest a feature to only allow members (or f2p) accounts to join a clan channel as a guest. Additional categories could be added to include filters such as Membership Status, Combat Level, Total Level, Ironman Status, and potentially even quest points and additional criteria. These could be adjusted to suit a clan's needs, with boxes being checked or unchecked to enable or disable each filter.

Seer

, I thought your post sounded familiar

And I think these filters would be useful. As of now though, I don't see them as necessary, because people who don't meet certain criteria would make sense to still be able to guest, though whether or not a clan makes them feel welcome is a separate but related matter.

Not meeting those criteria now also doesn't bar a guest from meeting those criteria later. I'd say allowing guests who don't meet requirements to guest is a passive investment in a future clan member, and an active one if you try to make them feel welcome and encourage them to meet such expectations.

What reasons were you thinking of with these filters? Also related to troll accounts, meaningful conversations that can assume a baseline understanding, or...?

VIVLOVESVIX

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20-Apr-2016 16:04:20 - Last edited on 20-Apr-2016 16:08:03 by Vera

Vera

Posts: 16,334 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Also, I wanted to share a story about a troll I encountered in hopes that it'll be a learning experience. It doesn't detract from the suggestion to ban f2p guests, since it addresses the problem behind the suggestion.

One time I was chatting in the Reddit fc and typing quite a lot, so I was pretty visible. Meanwhile, a troll came in yabbering about 9-11 and how it was the fault of some president or something, and I think one of the ranks tried to tell him to stop, but the rank was preoccupied to pursue the matter, and the troll was having too much fun to stop.

So I started talking to the troll, feigning a bit of naiveté, and asked him "What's your favorite culture in history? Not an event, but a culture, such as ancient China or ancient Egypt?"

"9-11" was the response, which I was internally expecteing, though outwardly I was clear that I didn't want to expect that as an answer lol.

"What is that*? I'm unfamiliar with what that* is, but I can see you're very passionate about it*. Also, I'm pretty sure that's* not a culture." *Edit: I'm careful not to mention the trigger phrase

A bystander actually came up with a great response btw, "Vivy I think it's a type of convenience store or something" (LOL)

Afterward I borderline harassed (but not actually, because that would make me a bully) the troll with my ineptitude and I think it made him uncomfortable, and took away his incentive behind trying to talk about a "sensitive" topic, because I was denying that it was a sensitive topic that we were being bothered by.

Because I was acting so psychologically uncanny, the troll no longer controlled the conversation, but I did.

Moral of the story: I view this as a harmless way of keeping trolls in check if you're witty and good at taking things the wrong/unexpected way; you just have to be careful you don't end up actually harassing anyone. Viv also gets annoyed at trolls and out-trolls them if all else fails.

VIVLOVESVIX

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20-Apr-2016 16:17:21 - Last edited on 20-Apr-2016 17:02:55 by Vera

Apr

2006

Esploratore

Posts: 1,675 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

@ Tribblewits You don't want to ever close your chats because you're functioning as a clan community consisting of three separate clans and your members move between the clan channels depending upon the situation and your needs. The original chat is used for communication and announcements along with your social media.

But when you wrote ... "For those saying close the cc's,

so we should punish a possible 1000 members not having access or having the option to talk in another cc. Including our admins, who are meant to keep order in any of our community's clans, when, at that time no admin is on, in the other clan..."

You weaken your argument.

Even with three chats, in reality you have nowhere near that many members impacted. Exaggerating the problem doesn't strengthen your position.

It's probably affecting no more than 150 players at any given time and most times less than that. So closing your chat when admins aren't online is a viable option even if it's not one you especially like.

20-Apr-2016 16:26:50

Seer of War

Posts: 13,968 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

We have always allowed guests, but as a clan with 475+ members that have played in the past 30 days and a large guest community it has caused issues.

Examples:

~We have to check unfamiliar guests on the highscores when we greet them (have had numerous issues with one spammer using multiple accounts). Therefore, low levels that are unresponsive or have no explanation (i.e. being someone's alt or a friend of a member) are asked to pm us and kicked.

~Guest broadcast system often glitches out and does not state when guests enter clan chat - which has resulted in us missing quite a few legitimate guests that we did not greet because the broadcast system was overloaded.

~The classic phantom guest. You know the ones... that you always say hello to but they never say a thing. Ever. Yet somehow they spend 8+ hours online in the chat and somehow tend to not gain very much xp during all that time. Those guests.

Our main issue is that we try to greet all guests and due to the sheer number of guests that do not interact, we have to take measures to maintain our community and standards (as well as our ability to interact with guests that are looking for a clan like ours).

And as for trolls, we rarely get trolls that are unrelated to a disciplinary matter that has already resulted in multiple warnings and opportunities to improve behavior before being removed from the clan entirely.

Typically our trolls are disgruntled former members that are already banned on their main and create toss away accounts to try to cause problems. We try to correct problems before it results in removal from the clan and potential escalation into this scenario.

For the above reasons it would be very useful to enable filters to join a clan chat as a guest such as Membership Status, Combat Level, Total Level, Ironman Status, and potentially even Quest Points and additional criteria. We could all devote more time to improving our communities instead of troll prevention.

Seer of War

Founder | The Order of War

2600+ Total Level International Tier 7 Citadel, PvM, and Skilling Clan Community

20-Apr-2016 16:51:44

Vera

Posts: 16,334 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Seer

, I see; you've come up with a lot of reasons why clan leaders and owners need better tools to address guest trolls; they affect the clan in ways that I might not have thought of or heard about, and in ways that require preventing trolls from even entering the clan chat.

In that case, what patterns have you noticed in regards to those filters and troll accounts? Based on your stories, I feel like total level and membership status would be primary filters--throwaway accounts tend to have low total levels and are f2p, and f2pers usually accumulate a bit of total level/invest some time in-game before being interested in a clan, unless someone invites them to guest theirs.

What pattern were you thinking of with total combat level and ironman status? Good point about the opportunity cost involved with having to deal trolls ourselves.

Esploratore

, good point, and thanks for providing feedback on how to make Tribelewits' arguments more founded. Wolfscape is honestly pretty impressive, but only when that feeling is conveyed and not forced

Tribelewits

, as a clan leader, you'll inevitably have to make decisions that don't appeal to everyone in the best interests of the clan overall, and based on tools you currently have. "Cause closing our cc for visitors is not an option." and the overall tone in your post seems extreme, and closes yourself off to realistic and current alternatives.

In your case, allowing clannies to guest between your three clans seems more valuable than discouraging trolls by temporarily closing the clan chats off to guests. More deliberately speaking, closing your cc to abate trolling *is* an option, but one that's not worthwhile only because of how much you value clannies to inter-guest.

That puts your suggestion into perspective, and would allow you to make a more convincing argument as to why whitelists/being able to ban f2pers, as opposed to something else.

VIVLOVESVIX

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20-Apr-2016 17:18:11 - Last edited on 20-Apr-2016 17:49:59 by Vera

Jan

2010

Chunksofplum

Posts: 141 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Esploratore said :
@ Tribblewits You don't want to ever close your chats because you're functioning as a clan community consisting of three separate clans and your members move between the clan channels depending upon the situation and your needs. The original chat is used for communication and announcements along with your social media.

But when you wrote ... "For those saying close the cc's,

so we should punish a possible 1000 members not having access or having the option to talk in another cc. Including our admins, who are meant to keep order in any of our community's clans, when, at that time no admin is on, in the other clan..."

You weaken your argument.

Even with three chats, in reality you have nowhere near that many members impacted. Exaggerating the problem doesn't strengthen your position.

It's probably affecting no more than 150 players at any given time and most times less than that. So closing your chat when admins aren't online is a viable option even if it's not one you especially like.

Hi Esploratore

We do not use the cc in quite the way you have described but the main clan chat "wolfscape" is indeed a hub but all our announcements are made in each clan using carefully placed admins

Back on topic, i dont think he means 1000 members in 1 Minute, hour or whatever time it sit, what he means is we have 3 almost full maxed social clans, being big and vibrant and active is one of our main hooks, we are proud to say you are free to chat in 3 channels if one is quiet/not on a topic you like so you can find bossing buddies skilling buddies etc, closing our clan chats limits any guests joining for that time, which means any of the potential 1000 members who want to be in our cc will be out, what Trib is offering is a simple solution to F2P trolls, closing 1 cc normally means closing all 3, i don't see why we should have to impact the community so seriously for the sake of 1 troll who

20-Apr-2016 19:08:40 - Last edited on 20-Apr-2016 19:32:01 by Chunksofplum

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Option to mute F2P guests?