forums.rs

Forums

F2P Extensions

Quick find code: 74-75-796-66289388

of 22
Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,237 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
And yeah - I've already given you the math why your multiplier would cause players rather to stick to the ores of unusual value like runite and drakolith, instead of going all the way up. Why would I invest 50 % more gold (unless that is really low - which just won't happen neither for the consolidated nor the igneous scenario) and quite a bit more of time (if you haven't mined for some time - try mining copper - and then try to mine runite - it's not that different jumping from dracolith to animica with a t90 pickaxe then) to just have a few gp more per ore - when the stack of drakolith after an hour certainly is bigger by a fair amount. It's certainly not XP - while the current mining system doesn't punish you as much for considering to mine any core ore higher levelled than iron, it still doesn't exactly reward you for doing so... it rather gives you the freedom of what you'd want to mine in that aspect, as long as you need more than one swing to mine an ore, which is why most higher levelled ores give you comparable xp rates (which is most likely the reason why most of those ores also are fairly comparably valued, with a bit of extra for time invested to get the high level ores).

To be fair - maybe it's really for the best to cut this idea entirely. The current system has its flaws, but it at least works in general. I just can't say the same about where we are right now. And I really don't have the feeling we're getting somewhere. Affects my suggestion as well, since I also would have taken into account to break using spirits on one or two ores (namely coal and maybe-ish silver) in the process. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

09-Jan-2024 07:50:55 - Last edited on 09-Jan-2024 08:37:01 by Rikornak

Seasons Past

Seasons Past

Posts: 594 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I get that we have different perspectives on this. I wouldn’t lay down my life to defend the scaling proposal. I continued the argument mostly to weigh different options for reworking stone spirits.

I agree that higher ores should provide significantly more value than lower ones. That’s a fairly high priority. But I think that’s more of an issue with how the Mining skill itself works. Yes, it takes longer to mine higher ores, leading to economic outcomes that don’t always reward gathering the highest resource available. Reworking stone spirits alone wouldn’t solve that - although I accept that a misguided execution could backfire, as you’ve explained.

I guess I’m just wondering why you wanted to rework stone spirits in the first place. Spirit of Forinthry ~ Runecrafting: Magic Armour ~ F2P Extensions ~ Dragon Slayer improvements ~ New Player Experience

09-Jan-2024 13:48:48

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,237 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
As I said - I do see the system as flawed for a couple of reasons. It got a bit better over the course of years (since you nowadays at least reasonably can use all spirits), but it still has issues it shouldn't have five years later.

- Compared to anima stones for runecrafting or just wood spirits for woodcutting, it is insanely overbloated, since we outright have spirits for every secondary ore on top of the primary counterpart. And then we've got a family of ores, that has nothing to do with core ores with gold and silver. We have 10 tiers of wood - thus we have 10 kinds of wood spirits. For mining it's 17. And expanding this system in any way - be it vertically towards level 120 - or horizontally with something like your blurite proposal will only make it worse. Anima stones manage to work with two different kinds - and this fairly well for most runes, but the ones, that just aren't used much. Albeit I still believe they should add a third kind used for necrotic runes (rather than let's say adding them to catalytic).
- This is an issue, that mostly applies to slayer in 2024, since Jagex fixed it over the course of years for a lot of bosses and fairly recently for the RDT - you are getting lots of inadequate spirits in places in which they no longer are supposed to drop - and probably enough other things that just awarded adamant ore and/or bars in the past and I am just not thinking off right now. An adamantite spirit is neither useful nor valuable - so why is this a drop from something that requires me to have a slayer level of 80 and higher. Since it would be an insane effort to clean out all those remaining loot tables, I thought it would be elegant to have a more versatile spirit - that still intended to be used by lower levelled players - but just fulfilling more purpose all over the board. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

09-Jan-2024 15:10:38 - Last edited on 09-Jan-2024 15:24:00 by Rikornak

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,237 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
- Higher levelled spirits at least only drop in places Jagex intents them to (if this is good or bad is something else, but at least it's more than some side effect of globally replacing valuable, but useless things by low levelled junk, that's worthless in addition), but I don't think it's to need two variants per tier (still one for bane, since it doesn't have a secondary), which is why I thought this as viable enough compared to an igneous variation (which certainly would then have the anima stones vibe).
- Obviously since you do want to introduce blurite as a permanent component (which I really like by its pure idea), it would have needed its own kind of spirit. Seeing how scarce anima stones and wood spirits (elder is the only variant, that right now has one singular dropper besides advanced bird nests over half a year later - everything else is nests only) still are, it would have allowed to ensure some supply from the get-go.
- More of an historical issue - some kinds of spirits were too rare to be feasible usable by non-ironmen. This was an issue for a long time for light animica and for copper and tin it basically was only fixed not even a year ago. But seeing wood spirits and anima stones again - this will be an issue everytime they'll horizontally introduce something new (let's say they would have something new to mine at level 85 - it could instantly be covered the igneous stone), vertically we'll need new spirits for sure though.
- To be honest - I am generally unsure if the access of free players to certain stone spirits is ensured for ironmen - especially for adamantite, luminite and runite. I know you can come by the other variants somehow, but does it work well for your top stuff? Think of an ironman, who can't just get their adamantite spirits for cheap from a member. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

09-Jan-2024 15:12:36 - Last edited on 09-Jan-2024 15:30:49 by Rikornak

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,237 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I'd like to lay down a new proposal, incorporating parts of your concept as well.

- Sedimentary: Core ores up to and including tier 50. Can be stored in any ore box.
- Igneous (p2p): Core ores up to and including tier 90. Can be stored in orikalkum or higher tiered ore boxes.
- Metamorphic (conceptual, p2p): Core ores up to and including tier 120. Would be stored in a new tier 100 ore box or higher.
- Precious: Any special ore - not only metals used for jewellery, but also gems or rather niche ores like rubium or elemental - or even daeyalt to get out of the meiyerditch mines faster. Can be stored in any ore box.

What I actually liked from your 'singular spirit' concept was the freedom and versatility you have with it. If this is concept is used to a certain degree, while keeping low levelled stuff independent, it actually isn't that bad, since the former doesn't negatively affect the latter that way. If anything it makes the igneous one more valuable, albeit I'd expect most players to still grab a sedimentary spirit when it comes to mining ores up to t50 for instance. But they could use the igneous one if they want. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

09-Jan-2024 15:50:46 - Last edited on 09-Jan-2024 17:00:49 by Rikornak

Seasons Past

Seasons Past

Posts: 594 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Rikornak said :
I'd like to lay down a new proposal, incorporating parts of your concept as well.

- Sedimentary: Core ores up to and including tier 50. Can be stored in any ore box.
- Igneous (p2p): Core ores up to and including tier 90. Can be stored in orikalkum or higher tiered ore boxes.
- Metamorphic (conceptual, p2p): Core ores up to and including tier 120. Would be stored in a new tier 100 ore box or higher.
- Precious: Any special ore - not only metals used for jewellery, but also gems or rather niche ores like rubium or elemental - or even daeyalt to get out of the meiyerditch mines faster. Can be stored in any ore box.

What I actually liked from your 'singular spirit' concept was the freedom and versatility you have with it. If this is concept is used to a certain degree, while keeping low levelled stuff independent, it actually isn't that bad, since the former doesn't negatively affect the latter that way. If anything it makes the igneous one more valuable, albeit I'd expect most players to still grab a sedimentary spirit when it comes to mining ores up to t50 for instance. But they could use the igneous one if they want. I revised the Jewellery/Ore suggestions according to your proposal, with two adjustments. I included
earth spirits
, for non-metallic minerals, as the fourth category. I didn’t include any quest resources with the precious category, partly due to lack of space. Those have various disparate uses, so I think they should be decided on an individual basis. Spirit of Forinthry ~ Runecrafting: Magic Armour ~ F2P Extensions ~ Dragon Slayer improvements ~ New Player Experience

09-Jan-2024 21:37:55

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,237 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Earth spirits certainly would be a nice addition and fit thematically, but you obviously need to introduce them to the game first, since they won't be converted by something - ideally in a fashion, they would be available to f2p IM as well.

RS3 has fairly few quest exclusive ores - most of them have some kind of (limited) purpose, which I thought could be used in a niche fashion additionally - such as filling up your super explosive shaker or creating a suit of elemental armour. It's certainly not important, more like just some cherry on the top.

While at this kind of resource - free players could be allowed to fight fetid zombies to make elemental anima stones available to them. There isn't really a reason for them not to be f2p. They spawn on p2p worlds without doing the fort quest series and they do not have a slayer requirement to be fought. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

10-Jan-2024 07:09:04 - Last edited on 10-Jan-2024 07:11:21 by Rikornak

Seasons Past

Seasons Past

Posts: 594 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I had briefly looked into quest exclusives. These include:

1 Elemental
20 Daeyalt
46 Rubium
75 Crystal fragment
81 Rare sandstone (red and crystal)
89 Corrupted ore
97 Alaea crablets

The level 81 sandstones are the only ones I’d hesitate to include, as stone spirits would be fairly game-changing for them. If they were to be included, I’d put them with earth spirits alongside regular sandstone.

Feel free to suggest sources for earth spirits, or any related improvements for the others. I’d imagine that they would come from combat by default, but I don’t feel confident in my ability to address that, as I haven’t been up to date with combat for a long time.

I’ve added fetid zombies and elemental anima stones to the other Runecrafting suggestions on post 7. Spirit of Forinthry ~ Runecrafting: Magic Armour ~ F2P Extensions ~ Dragon Slayer improvements ~ New Player Experience

10-Jan-2024 11:24:40 - Last edited on 10-Jan-2024 11:32:23 by Seasons Past

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,237 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
You certainly have thought more about all the other kinds of minerals out there, than I did. But I do think having a spirit that is dedicated to those is certainly a great addition. While I do see elemental, daeyalt and rubium as ambitious, I certainly would add the crystal fragments to precious, even though it would be the sole untradeable entry there - it just fits more there thematically. I do fully agree with excluding red and crystal sandstone - there may be items and unlocks, that allow you to increase your output, there is nothing for outright doubling it. I also would exclude the rare arc crab, since there is a nasty arc related bug, causing your rare resource notes to be exhausted faster, if you use mechanics, that increase your loot. If Jagex was to ever fix it, it could be included as well.

As for making them available more widely, I would replace other stone spirits by them - since they're a more universal spirit, they wouldn't feel too off on higher levelled loot tables either. It certainly doesn't hurt for either kind to have some re-distribution in whatever way. For the future it could be some kind of distinct drop - like anima stones and wood spirits will be available more and more readily over time.

Speaking of wood spirits I think they could simplified in some fairly straight-forward fashion.

- Lesser wood spirit: Core logs up to and including tier 50
- Greater wood spirit (p2p): Core logs up to and including tier 90.

No changes whatsoever on any loot tables for now - a spirit nest will either give 4-6 lesser spirits or 3-4 greater ones. Vorkath will continue to drop a certain amount of greater spirits depending on the difficulty fought. A dedicated spirit for exotic wood (achey, arctic pine, eucalyptus, blisterwood) could be included, but I wouldn't see as much value for those, than the earth and precious spirits would have - except for the achey you outright only cut them during their respective quests. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

10-Jan-2024 13:36:17 - Last edited on 10-Jan-2024 13:47:59 by Rikornak

Quick find code: 74-75-796-66289388 Back to Top