RuneScape Forum Archive | F2P Extensions

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,237 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

You're also forgetting about yet another aspect of mining - it takes progressively longer to mine higher levelled ores. Sure - you would prefer to mine drakolith over runite solely for the fact you'll have that chance to receive a metamorpic geode. But why should you mine let's say literally anything above that? Not only it takes longer, you also have to invest 50 % more for barely more profit. And to be fair - drakolith isn't some temporary thing, it's has been worth quite a fair bit more than orichalcite (and thus the comparable value for the ores above it) for years - unsure why it is like that - for runite it's clearly the involvement in elder rune (and potentially it being used for rune minotaurs, which became viable to make following the m&s rework).

Issue is - with one singular stone spirit it's entirely unpredictable how prices will turn out. As I said it won't have too much of an impact for igneous ones, since they're all fairly comparably available and thus valued. Sedimentary spirits would most likely go towards something between 100 and 200 gp, since you'll receive abundant amounts of adamantite spirits from high level slayer (still not fixed as of the 5th anniversary of the mining & smithing rework) and those becoming much more sought after for runite then. One singular kind of spirit could be worth anything between 200 and 550 gp - so it might be an improvement for runite and gold and comparable for either kind of animica, but will degrade everything else compared to status quo without a multiplier. And boy - then comes the multiplier. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

08-Jan-2024 06:27:01 - Last edited on 08-Jan-2024 06:49:18 by Rikornak

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,237 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Let's just assume it would be the extreme estimate of 550 (so roughly comparable to either kind of animica spirit right now).

For a piece of copper worth 575, you'll have to invest 550.
For a piece of tin worth 475, you'll have to invest 550. (I mean - t1 spirits were broken anyway for most of the time...)
For a piece of adamantite worth 1200, you'll have to invest 1100. (And that one would work perfectly fine, if it wasn't to scale costs)
For a piece of runite worth 2500, you'll have to invest 1100.
For a piece of drakolith worth 3250, you'll have to invest 1100
For a piece of necrite worth 3500, you'll have to invest 1650
For a piece of light animica - the goddamn top notch ore - worth 4200, you'll have to invest 1650

You'll earn a few gp more for mining light animica over drakolith on a per ore basis. But you clearly do not think about it also takes quite a few swings longer each time to get your ore. But your increased costs for that stone spirit make it unfeasible to mine anything else over drakolith - even the dark animica variant, since that one also was worth less always than light. And even if it just was 200 gp as some estimated lower floor for a spirit - it still heavily eats up that bit of additional profit.

Obviously - all just estimations - the things also could end up dirt cheap, which would be the sole case, in which your multiplier doesn't cause any real damage - but it also could be even higher than that, worsening it even further. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

08-Jan-2024 06:30:06 - Last edited on 08-Jan-2024 07:21:49 by Rikornak

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,237 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

If your investment costs remain static, you would only have to take time into account - and that part actually works fairly decently. It is fairly viable to go for most higher levelled ores right now if you want to make a profit to be fair - obviously still some favour towards the outlier drakolith.

The other issue with one singular spirit is just the divergence between ores - and that will hurt the lower levelled ores you're so hellbent on protecting a lot . Yeah obviously some consolidated sedimentary spirit would have it made more expensive to mine iron, coal and adamanite either - but never to a degree it would entirely eat up your profits entirely - potentially coal exclusively, since it's basically the only ore nowadays not reliant on mining to come into the game. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

08-Jan-2024 07:21:15 - Last edited on 08-Jan-2024 08:16:34 by Rikornak

Seasons Past

Posts: 594 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Since we agree on the unpredictable nature of prices, it comes down to whether the investment to gain more ores should increase with the level of resources, even if only modestly.

The point wasn’t to be a protectionist for low-level ores; only to make stone spirits relevant at lower levels. The window of opportunity to make use of the first several stone spirits is almost so brief as to bring their existence into question, which is a shame. Spirit of Forinthry ~ Runecrafting: Magic Armour ~ F2P Extensions ~ Dragon Slayer improvements ~ New Player Experience

08-Jan-2024 15:06:18

Seasons Past

Posts: 594 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Update 08/01/24

Introduction ( post 1 )
-Added link to Noctis King’s Treasure Trails rewards suggestions on post 156

Asgarnia

Farming Extension ( post 2 )
-Proposed lowering requirements for the following flowers, for consistency with proposed Summoning changes:
* 13 Nasturtium
* 15 Butterfly flower

Varrock & Wilderness

Sightseeing (post 7)
-Proposed solutions to plot issues in the Gunnar’s Ground quest, to make it more realistic: Seasons Past said :
* After his daughter (Juliet) moved out, Draul Leptoc converted his house into a hostel and went abroad. Dororan, who was staying there, and Gudrun are free to live there indefinitely after the quest. Summoning Familiars ( post 123 )
-Reworked section and re-adjusted many familiars:
* Level 7 - Spirit rabbit: requires raw rabbit and grants Tier 1 Luck
* Level 10 - Fire elemental ingredient changed to oak logs
* Level 12 - Spirit rat (replacing albino rat): reduced chance to burn food when Cooking and increased healing from food
* Level 13 - Spirit snail (replacing thorny snail and spirit kalphite): BoB with 6 slots, requiring nasturtiums
* Level 16-18 - Granite crab and desert wyrm ingredients swapped to bucket of sand and iron ore, respectively, to better match their abilities
* Level 17 - Spirit mosquito: grants immunity to weak poison effects
* Level 19 - Spirit scorpion: Constitution/Defence +2 (invisible boost), ingredient changed from bronze claw to scimitar
* Level 20 - Beaver

Jewellery ( post 141 )
-Flattened scaling mechanic for stone spirits:

Ore
-Stone spirits merged into one type
-Number of stone spirits consumed per ore mined would increase with tier:
* T1-30 (1)
* T40-60 (2)
* T70-90 (3) Spirit of Forinthry ~ Runecrafting: Magic Armour ~ F2P Extensions ~ Dragon Slayer improvements ~ New Player Experience

08-Jan-2024 16:27:39 - Last edited on 09-Jan-2024 01:39:36 by Seasons Past

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,237 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Seasons Past said :
Since we agree on the unpredictable nature of prices, it comes down to whether the investment to gain more ores should increase with the level of resources, even if only modestly.

The point wasn’t to be a protectionist for low-level ores; only to make stone spirits relevant at lower levels. The window of opportunity to make use of the first several stone spirits is almost so brief as to bring their existence into question, which is a shame.

The issue is the only option you have to scale is a multiplier. And a multiplier just doesn't work . And neither does one singular spirit, that is used from level 1 to level 99 - which is to be fair currently the bigger issue with your suggestion.

Find a solution, that doesn't bring up costs manifold and I wouldn't say you've found something good (since you'll never manage to do it in a way, that doesn't at least feel like some unnecessary nagging, which outright could stem from RSC), but at least it wouldn't something, that does nothing, but breaking the majority of the system itself. You probably could multiple spirit drops and consumption by 100 - and then add 1 or 2 more per tier if you must...

But that is exactly why a few - rather than one - kinds of spirits - that are rather similar to one another - could do wonders - as said - it works extremely well for runecrafting despite the poor availability of the stones - it just doesn't for the runes, that are undemanded for whatever reason. It is a fact we have way too many kinds of stone spirits right now - partially given to the fact, we have a ton of secondary ores - which was the reason why my initial idea was condensing spirits above t60 to one singular kind per tier (but since they're comparably available and valuable it would have worked as 'igneous' as well) - which would be fairly comparable to the woodcutting ones (since we only have one per tier and core log there). Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

08-Jan-2024 17:15:25 - Last edited on 08-Jan-2024 18:14:58 by Rikornak

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,237 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

But I am saying it outright now - your proposal went worse from iteration to iteration. I don't like status quo, which is why I brought this up in the first place. Your scaling factor alone with three kinds of spirits made it progressively less viable to use them on higher levelled ores - yeah you certainly would used your sedimentary spirits on copper and tin and maybe-ish runite (albeit times 5 is something), igneous solely for drakolith and precious probably blurite - alone for the fact it doesn't have some running kind of economy right now and will be thus more valuable at first.

And now you want to outright break the usage for low levelled ores entirely - and to spite out higher levelled players you'll break it for any ore without some unusually high value (like runite or drakolith). The current system at least kinda functions by now. Maybe it really would be better just to stay at something, that just features design flaws - rather than something that's purposefully broken - intent or not.

Of course it would be more profitable to use a sedimentary spirit on runite, adamantite or luminite than it would be on copper, tin or iron - but is that an issue when you're getting rewarded for being able to mine higher levelled things - but I still would expect it to be viable enough to use for the former. A multiplier within that singular family will highly diminish the use on any ore, but copper, tin and runite (and this one can survive solely due to its unusual value )

I think if we were to go purely by what is going on ingame, runite would even need to be its own kind of spirit (so sedimentary, runite, igneous and precious). This ore just is so unusual for what it is - which makes both the spirit as well as the metal as valuable as it is - not what it should be. But I just do not think it's right to treat it differently solely due to its ingame behaviour.

Sorry for the rant, but I had to make my point clear. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

08-Jan-2024 17:15:30 - Last edited on 08-Jan-2024 18:29:02 by Rikornak

Seasons Past

Posts: 594 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Under your proposal of sedimentary, igneous, and precious stone spirits, would you not expect the prices to be different for each type? In all likelihood, the market values would reflect the ores they’re used for, working out to precious > sedimentary > igneous.

That is very similar to what I am proposing, with the cost in stone spirits increasing by one third of the max value per each of three categories.

Under my proposal, you would pay the same investment for adamantite through drakolith. You’d also pay the same cost for necrite as animica, so I don’t see how you would be “punished” for mining higher ores. If anything, you would be rewarded for moving up while further disincentivised to mine adamantite and necrite, as higher ores would be more profitable than lower ones. Spirit of Forinthry ~ Runecrafting: Magic Armour ~ F2P Extensions ~ Dragon Slayer improvements ~ New Player Experience

09-Jan-2024 01:15:38

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,237 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

This will be solely the case if you solely average out the values without any regard of the availability of the individual spirits. Truth to be told I do think it'll be precious (blurite included - at least for some time after release) > igneous > precious (blurite excluded) > sedimentary.

You need a bit more of context from high level play, so I'll tell you now, that the low levelled (i.e. everything that isn't igneous) spirits you most commonly encounter as an high levelled player (i.e. for slayer somebody who does tasks assigned by movran, laniakea and mandrith, someone who does treasure trails, who does things that allow you to encounter the rare drop table (RDT) - bosses are better by now in that regard, it's not like you're doing nex and end up with a 2k stack of coal spirits or telos with likewise numbers of adamant anymore - but that was a thing for quite some time...) are adamant (and this one is insane , I doubt you could believe what monsters dropped adamanite ore and bars to be smithed into alch fodder in what amounts pre-rework, which then outright were replaced that with spirits in equal numbers), coal (and coal itself just isn't as much in demand, since you just can cover your needs and so with the kingdom management minigame) and gold. Runite (this was rather a boss and RDT issue and they have fixed it over the course of years), luminite and silver are less common, but certainly not unseen - rarely even mithril. As for the remainder of the sedimentary ores iron must have some abundant sources as well, given how worthless it is, but personally I would expect it to be some low levelled boss or the likes - lower and medium levelled slayers mobs haven't dropped that stuff metal in numbers comparably to high levelled ones. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

09-Jan-2024 06:36:39 - Last edited on 09-Jan-2024 07:27:32 by Rikornak

Oct

2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,237 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I said I do assume sedimentary spirits to be worth somewhere between 100 and 200 gp, given the fact you're having a lot of some of the aforementioned spirits available, which will come more into demand for runite and luminite, but actually keep them viable enough for every single ore up to t50 - with quite some scope for tolerance for any ore that isn't coal.

Igneous spirits are comparably available, since all loot tables containing them were designed post-rework - so just getting an average there would work - I'd say they'll settle down somewhere between 250 and 450 gp. Nothing to say there, you just could mine all those things just fine. Given - without a multiplier.

To be fair I do wonder what caused gold spirits to rise as much as they did - they also were close to worthless most of the time. As for precious spirits without the inclusion of blurite the favour will certainly shift stronger towards gold, so I do think something between 350 and 450 is realistic, which might make them unfeasible to mine silver. Adding blurite to the mix will make things obviously entirely unpredictable (and probably at least temporarily higher than that), since players will at first mine that stuff like insane, since there is an economy to be established at first.

What did I say for one singular spirit? Anywhere between 200 to 550 - that was under the assumption blurite would become a thing. Low levelled ores obviously will lose out most, since players naturally would want them to use for the good stuff (and that new thing at least at first). I think if blurite wasn't to become a thing it's probably more like up to 400 - a slight shift in favour to individual igneous and precious spirits due to the insane availability of sedimentary ones. Still not really good for the low levelled things. And then comes your multiplier eating up profits on top of that, for ores, that already do suffer due to this - and also those that don't. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

09-Jan-2024 06:37:43 - Last edited on 09-Jan-2024 07:25:39 by Rikornak

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