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Proposal: remove FMR. Thread is locked

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Stoat King

Stoat King

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With this level of inattention, I suspect FMR will become a problem that solves itself.
Would any of the poster on this thread bother posting there? What would be the point?

At the point none bothers because futility, then why even have an FMR?
Problem solved!

Mr Brushie said :
I for one would just love to know what the "reasons" are that a ticket system won't work, as she put it. You already know. It would involve someone spending some time on it. Which isnt going to happen.

09-Sep-2021 11:29:29

Mr Brushie

Mr Brushie

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Stoat King said :
With this level of inattention, I suspect FMR will become a problem that solves itself.
Would any of the poster on this thread bother posting there? What would be the point?

At the point none bothers because futility, then why even have an FMR?
Problem solved!

Mr Brushie said :
I for one would just love to know what the "reasons" are that a ticket system won't work, as she put it. You already know. It would involve someone spending some time on it. Which isnt going to happen.

Yes, I know. I just want Kari to at least confirm as much in her own words.

09-Sep-2021 23:25:01

Chief Elf
Apr Member 2017

Chief Elf

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Archaeox said :
Given the length of time that occurs between Staff posts on the Forum Moderation Review thread, it is evident that either
a) Staff are not interested in maintaining it, or
b) there are not enough Staff with enough time to maintain it

Given that it is not uncommon for a player to have to wait 4-6 weeks for a response (by which time its relevance and usefulness are minimal), FMR no longer fulfils Jagex's promise to properly oversee its FMod team.

It is therefore unfair and unreasonable to carry on pretending that players have should have any kind of expectation that their concerns will be considered in a timely or efficient manner.

As such, FMR is no longer fit for purpose, and should be removed.

Instead, players should be able to submit support tickets for forum issues, as these have a much better chance of being dealt with within, say, a week. This may, of course, require some additional customer support training, but as they say, you can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs - and this will probably be less expensive than investing in extra Staff to look after the.

EDIT: SEE DISCUSSION SUMMARY ON PAGE 17, POST 10

I’m curious Archaex, what mechanism within support tickets allows it to be processed and attended to at a faster rate than FMR?

From my personal experience, FMR has allowed reversal of not only forum moderator actions, but also Jagex moderator actions as well.

The advantage of the FMR experience was that it became a learning curve for the community including Fmods because it was quite uncommon territory. It opened up some interesting conversations (if my memory serves me right). So the FMR provided transparency and it gives the public a sense that Jagex is maintaining some level of accountability.
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26-Sep-2021 03:49:41 - Last edited on 26-Sep-2021 03:56:07 by Chief Elf

Chief Elf
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Chief Elf

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Loki said :
BreakingBad said :
I watch many a player become moderators and their posts stopped being friendly, helpful advice that got them the crown to only enforcing rules and responding to reports, which is sad to see as many of them were fantastic contributors. Long gone is the quest forum, and youtube now full of literal step by step guides! So it is nice to see Fmods joining in threads I mean, it's not just moderators that happens with, and certainly not everyone at that! It happens pretty much anywhere online or even in real life. If someone wants a position, then they'll try as hard as they can to achieve it, going above and beyond until they do, and when they do get it, then they don't need to "work" as hard to maintain it.

It's sad that it happens, but it's human nature, and there will always be people who do it, not everyone will, but some always will.

While I agree its human nature, I think it is human nature falling to a system and expectations. If you’ve been provided a role, and you had certain perceptions of a role based on the behaviours of past and existing actors of the role, you would naturally assimilate because you’re new and social organisms learn by modelling.

So during the prime policing era, it might have been the case that newly minted green mods were simply behaving the way they did because they believed it was the norm, because they thought they were expected to.

In recent years when community management have pushed for Fmods to do less policing and more community engagement, I felt like the energy had shifted. (Of course, some community members wanted Fmods to do MORE policing so you can never really satisfy everyone).
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26-Sep-2021 04:19:27 - Last edited on 26-Sep-2021 04:32:00 by Chief Elf

Chief Elf
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Chief Elf

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BreakingBad said :
If a Jmod posted 'sorry for the delay, it'll be another minimum X amount of time before we're able to do this', would be better than leaving it blank with no communication, its the unknown that scares people

I support this idea!

But I also want to add, that if they have time to post that, maybe they have time to review at least one complaint.

And so.. if resource constraints is the issue.. maybe the community can think of ways we can work with what we’ve got.

So Mod Kari, how do you feel about setting a reminder on your iPad or your desk to do a minimum of 10 minutes of review per month? How does that sound? Minimum of 10 minutes per month is better than silence for 2 months. If it’s still to big, how about just one review per month?

I think community members feel safe when there’s visibility of some level of action.
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26-Sep-2021 04:30:34 - Last edited on 26-Sep-2021 04:31:29 by Chief Elf

Chief Elf
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Chief Elf

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CM Nick said :
Mr Brushie said :
BreakingBad said :
*nudes Jagex*

So that's how Pmods get chosen on this game. :O


But seriously, shouldn't you purple people eaters be like..."Hey yo, when you hired me you said this would happen, only it hasn't, so...like..." ...?

It's definitely been brought up in the past quite a few times, and there was always a technical/security hurdle that Jagex was working on that prevented it happening. I assume it's to do with JMod accounts requiring backend access, which as we know is a real pain to access if you're not in the Jagex office, and the fact that we're 3rd party... so there's probably a mess of legal framework and paperwork to go through to make it happen, in addition to the technical side.

We do everything we can with the tools we have, but unfortunately in regards to access to that, we're not really in a position to do much other than inquire to Jagex about it when we can. I still hold out hope that it'll happen eventually, as Jagex continues to keep us around and seem very happy with our work and has mentioned recently they're making strides with figuring it out.

Anyway, fingers crossed on this in the future, but for the time being unfortunately it's not really a viable alternative.

Okay if tech issues are the problem, and there’s not enough staff to support it, why don’t we ask some help from the community techies? Jagex, while I know you want to maintain autonomy and agency over your own company, as well as layers of intermingling issues of confidentiality and legalities, there are many brilliant techies with the community. If there’s not enough staff I’m sure there are many within the community who’d be willing to help in whatever way they can.
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26-Sep-2021 04:38:41

Chief Elf
Apr Member 2017

Chief Elf

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Stoat King said :
Something else worth pointing out is that, in total, it would likely take the same amount of time regardless of whether its done weekly.
The frequency of posts in FMR doesnt vary that much. If it takes an half an hour for a weeks worth, then its reasonable to assume that it would take four hours for eight weeks worth.
The main difference being that the latter scenario is way more of a pain in the ass since, by definition, it takes a bigger chunk of the day and also - being so long ago, it is likely harder to work out the context.

Okay Stoat, and Archaeox, let’s try and think of ways we can help the system and work with what we’ve got.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m under the impression that Jagex doesn’t HAVE to respond to every single one of the complaint. Actually I’m wrong.

But what I’m thinking.. is if we could categorise the system. Then start with categories of higher priorities then work our way down.

Well.. the first step into categorising a system would be to create a typology.. which means we might have to start codifying the behaviours of Fmods and FMR complaints.

That’s just my idea.. but I’m also acknowledging that I dont have much knowledge of the different behaviours of Fmods, cause I’m not lurking behind every single one of their moderative actions, and FMR is classified.

If I had my way.. I would create a retrospective analysis of all the FM reviews and evaluate which posts ended in Fmoderation reversal. Then, if there are patterns, I would create a category based on that pattern and prioritise any posts that have words related to the pattern.

Maybe this idea is too far fetched, but I hope it might inspire other ideas.
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26-Sep-2021 04:49:07 - Last edited on 26-Sep-2021 04:50:24 by Chief Elf

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