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Vera

Vera

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If this trolling has continued for a very long time, then I'm back at my original thought--your clan is likely at fault for this continued trolling. I don't know if you guys are at fault for the trolling in the first place, but it is very likely you are for its continuation.

Either that, or you are being affected by it more than you should because you are taking it too personally and not trying to justify where the bullies are coming from. Most bullies have their own self-esteem issues, and as such take it out on others. Explaining your bullie's actions and as such, blaming things on them instead of taking things so personally is different from "sucking it up"; sucking it up means not doing anything about it, whereas reformatting how you think of where the bullies are coming from puts the blame on them, and normally also results in your sympathizing for them.

In regards to me missing the point--it's easy to miss when it hasn't really been defined. When they found out you had a boyfriend, did that make the trolling pick up? Or did the trolling exist at its relentlessness and intensity before they found out? If the answer is yes to the first and no to the second, then you need to acknowledge that reality and as such, respond (or not respond) more deliberately to your trolls, after figuring out why their trolling. (In this case, because they magnify differenes to make them feel like they belong and you don't.)
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07-Jun-2016 08:17:55 - Last edited on 07-Jun-2016 09:03:02 by Vera

Mod Matthe

Mod Matthe

Jagex Moderator Forum Profile Posts by user
We do take this situation seriously and it is a high priority for the Player Support Team. However the most serious kinds of behaviours are often very difficult to track, involve multi-site use and are often involve both sides being at fault. We ask players who believ they are being bullied or harassed to report and ignore as it is simply the most effective method for dealing with the issue. Players are placed under account sanction all day, every day, for these kinds of behaviours and language though, like all bans, that is not alaways visible to the wider community.

It is often the case that reports are not as clear cut as the reporters perception may imply it is. On examination of the whole text there is often a measure of to and fro, or involved histories of both parties being as bad as each other. But if you do not report we cannot even do that. A massive proportion of the investgations I have conducted on the basis of the CLF have proved to not have reports relating to the incidents claimed - I cannot do anything without evidence.

And no, screenshots do NOT count. Mod MattHe | Former Community Manager, now in Events & occasional Lore Monkey

07-Jun-2016 09:02:50

Scret
Mar Member 2018

Scret

Posts: 25,434 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Mod Matthe said :
We do take this situation seriously and it is a high priority for the Player Support Team. However the most serious kinds of behaviours are often very difficult to track, involve multi-site use and are often involve both sides being at fault. We ask players who believ they are being bullied or harassed to report and ignore as it is simply the most effective method for dealing with the issue. Players are placed under account sanction all day, every day, for these kinds of behaviours and language though, like all bans, that is not alaways visible to the wider community.

It is often the case that reports are not as clear cut as the reporters perception may imply it is. On examination of the whole text there is often a measure of to and fro, or involved histories of both parties being as bad as each other. But if you do not report we cannot even do that. A massive proportion of the investgations I have conducted on the basis of the CLF have proved to not have reports relating to the incidents claimed - I cannot do anything without evidence.

And no, screenshots do NOT count.

You only have to spend a month in the Living Rock Caverns to see that there are players who will constantly get away with the same horrific language time and time again and thats not to mention the specific cases ive seen regarding members of the clan.

However well you think you are doing or however well you seem to think that reports work are certainly not as good and as effective as you think they are, Jagex do not do anywhere near enough to help the situation despite how many excuses and assurances you want to keep giving us.

I have addressed 3 of the main reasons earlier in this thread and its something that certainly needs to be done if things are to improve.

If both sides are at fault then that doesnt mean no action should be taken, it means both sides should be punished accordingly.
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07-Jun-2016 09:22:01

Seer of War

Seer of War

Posts: 13,968 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Mod Matthe said :
We do take this situation seriously and it is a high priority for the Player Support Team. However the most serious kinds of behaviours are often very difficult to track, involve multi-site use and are often involve both sides being at fault. We ask players who believ they are being bullied or harassed to report and ignore as it is simply the most effective method for dealing with the issue. Players are placed under account sanction all day, every day, for these kinds of behaviours and language though, like all bans, that is not alaways visible to the wider community.

It is often the case that reports are not as clear cut as the reporters perception may imply it is. On examination of the whole text there is often a measure of to and fro, or involved histories of both parties being as bad as each other. But if you do not report we cannot even do that. A massive proportion of the investgations I have conducted on the basis of the CLF have proved to not have reports relating to the incidents claimed - I cannot do anything without evidence.

And no, screenshots do NOT count.

Back and forth should not mean a player should get away with heinous behavior. I had a back and forth with people calling my clan hackers and scammers and me asking them to provide proof of their allegations. It escalated to me being called a pedo. That should be an actionable offence, whether I asked them for proof during the conversation or not.
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07-Jun-2016 15:48:41

Vera

Vera

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Scret said :
If both sides are at fault then that doesnt mean no action should be taken, it means both sides should be punished accordingly. I agree with that. But we're limiting ourselves if we expect Jagex to take care of everything for us, and in a timely matter, especially when considering how reports aren't their only concern.

Ideally yes, all actionable offenses should be actioned on. But that's not happening because it's not an ideal world, and as such we have to deal with this situations ourselves just like in the real world. That can mean anything from modifying how we respond, or talking amongst our clannies to see how they're responding, even if they don't want to admit that they threw a few banal insults themselves (thus adding fuel to the fire).

One time I was playing normal mode barbarian assault with a TERRIBLE teammate, in that he wouldn't call. I was defending, and those of you who are familiar with that role, calls are pretty important. I was stuck in the belief that he should call, and *then* that he should call the correct item, and that my patience and openness to mistakes and kindness would pay off. NO. Fuck that guy, literally he can fuck himself.

Eventually I stopped explaining to him how to play the game and asking whether he understood, I stopped asking for him to call because asking him was now pointless, and instead I guessed and checked what foods the runners were attracted to or repelled from (which isn't ideal, and it takes forever, but it's incrementally productive). After that wave I ragequitted because the disrespect I was receiving as both a teammate and as someone trying to be helpful wasn't worth my time, and the rest of the team felt bad enough to apologize to me, even though they weren't the ones being jackasses.

It took me maybe 4 or so waves of terrible calling to realize that "this isn't going to happen because my teammates aren't ideal, but I can still try on my on my own ."
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07-Jun-2016 21:51:58

Anno

Anno

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I feel this is just something that we have to learn to deal with and will be an re-occuring issue. Really the negative stigma assosiated with your clan after such an incident will only impact those ignorant enough to listen to the trolls doing this.

Just make sure that when you're out there representing your clan you portray yourself in a way that truly shows what your clan is like and you'll get good members coming your way in no time. The way I see it the ones that join in and accept that 'X clan is full of retards' weren't ever worth recruiting in the first place and them doing so saved you a lot of time and future issues.

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07-Jun-2016 22:51:30

Lisaa
Jun Member 2014

Lisaa

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Mod Matthe said :
We ask players who believ they are being bullied or harassed to report and ignore as it is simply the most effective method for dealing with the issue. That's part of the issue though - it's still a very ineffective way of handling the situation. Also I'd rather not ignore people, as I'd rather know what they're saying about me than try to stick my head in the sand.

Mod Matthe said :
A massive proportion of the investgations I have conducted on the basis of the CLF have proved to not have reports relating to the incidents claimed - I cannot do anything without evidence. In my case several months ago you acknowledged that reports were received, and even agreed that the person's actions were inappropriate. Yet at the same time, all you did was tell me to report/ignore, and I know for a fact that nothing was done about the problem.

-----
Also, for all the "supposed" cases of people not reporting when they claim to have, maybe Jagex should invest in checking to see that all reports are being received properly. I'm already 100% certain that offences/appeals is a mess, as I was a personal witness to a friend defending herself from a troll and receiving a mute for it. I even saw the evidence that Jagex provided, and half the insults from the offending player were completely missing from the evidence .

-----
At the moment, I'm very inclined for my clan to continue to use the "conflict resolution" service we've hired in the past. Even though they ask for payment, even though their methods are shady, they've been more effective in quickly dealing with trolls and harassment than Jagex ever has been. If the day comes when Jagex can respond as quickly and efficiently as third-party "services" can, then I'd gladly go back to only reporting incidents to Jagex. @Lisaa_RS - Followed by @Runescape
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07-Jun-2016 23:17:29

Scret
Mar Member 2018

Scret

Posts: 25,434 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Vera said :
Scret said :
If both sides are at fault then that doesnt mean no action should be taken, it means both sides should be punished accordingly. I agree with that. But we're limiting ourselves if we expect Jagex to take care of everything for us, and in a timely matter, especially when considering how reports aren't their only concern.

Ideally yes, all actionable offenses should be actioned on. But that's not happening because it's not an ideal world, and as such we have to deal with this situations ourselves just like in the real world. That can mean anything from modifying how we respond, or talking amongst our clannies to see how they're responding, even if they don't want to admit that they threw a few banal insults themselves (thus adding fuel to the fire).

One time I was playing normal mode barbarian assault with a TERRIBLE teammate, in that he wouldn't call. I was defending, and those of you who are familiar with that role, calls are pretty important. I was stuck in the belief that he should call, and *then* that he should call the correct item, and that my patience and openness to mistakes and kindness would pay off. NO. Fuck that guy, literally he can fuck himself.


It took me maybe 4 or so waves of terrible calling to realize that "this isn't going to happen because my teammates [/quote]

When the incident occurs in public then yes it must be dealt with by Jagex because its setting a poor standard to which others will press to other not so willing participants .

But then again i aint talking about a few angry swear words aimed at each other im talking death threats, sexually explicit insults and harmful lies.

So ive come to the conclusion Jagex doesnt care about that or their report feature is faulty
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08-Jun-2016 00:15:04 - Last edited on 08-Jun-2016 00:21:44 by Scret

Blasty
Feb Member 2017

Blasty

Posts: 9,319 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Salcos said :
Repeatedly targeted by the same people. Why are we being told it is our fault right now when we, as a group, did nothing wrong. We had a member that trolled. They were kicked forever ago. We explained this. Seriously. The victim blaming kinda made me really angry so I am going to go now. Due to one ex clan member's banter an entire clan is being trolled and being threatened. Yet somehow it is our fault.

Seer of War said :
Back and forth should not mean a player should get away with heinous behavior. I had a back and forth with people calling my clan hackers and scammers and me asking them to provide proof of their allegations. It escalated to me being called a pedo. That should be an actionable offence, whether I asked them for proof during the conversation or not.

Scret said :
When the incident occurs in public then yes it must be dealt with by Jagex because its setting a poor standard to which others will press to other not so willing participants.

This looks like typical troll behaviour to me, and it looks like the trolls have been using some very tempting bait. The standard advice for dealing with trolls is not to feed them. If you feel like a troll's words have any weight, then you've been successfully baited and should find a way to avoid the situation before things escalate.
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08-Jun-2016 02:29:21 - Last edited on 08-Jun-2016 02:36:01 by Blasty

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