forums.rs

Forums

Probation/Cooldown Suggestions

Quick find code: 86-87-433-65562986

of 49
Bresmine
Oct Member 2023

Bresmine

Posts: 4,609 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Colifin said :
Nothing short of making them automatically join the clan chat during their probationary period will work. They need to feel like they're actually a part of the clan during that time.

I don't think this is the case. I think people trying out clans via guesting before they join is something that we are all just going to have to get used to. And making them feel welcome and at home is something that can be done without an official in-game invite.

The biggest concern I've seen is about the hindrance this has on clans who prefer to leave their chats closed for various reasons. A simplistic white list is the best middle ground between:

"CC closed to everyone, including recruits"
OR
"CC open to everyone, even trolls."


And that ^ is the only problem worth fixing, IMO. Two options that leave some clans stuck between a rock and a hard place.

All of the other concerns about around this update seem to be administrative burdens. We cannot expect Jagex to come in and fix every little, insignificant inconvenience.

Game changes happen fairly regularly - fanatics scream about how every update will be the death of us - but in truth, six months from now its going to seem as just another part of our regularly scheduled programming.

[edit] typo*
BRESMINE
| Perpetual Noob | XP Extraordinaire | Leader of
The Halls of Light

01-Feb-2015 23:01:13 - Last edited on 01-Feb-2015 23:35:48 by Bresmine

Blasty
Feb Member 2017

Blasty

Posts: 9,319 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Colifin said :
Nothing short of making them automatically join the clan chat during their probationary period will work. They need to feel like they're actually a part of the clan during that time.

I don't think automatically joining a clan during probation is going to have a positive effect on how potential recruits engage with a clan, and won't be a change that makes them "feel like they're part of the clan".

I've had several guests ask me personally and keenly for an invitation at the end of their cool down period. I agree with Bresmine and I think that automatic joining for guests is more likely to have a negative effect on clan engagement.

The feedback from previously sceptical leaders is that they're seeing more interest from potential recruits in joining their clan. I think this is because players have to be more active in the recruitment process to look for more options. Making it possible to become idle and non-engaged and yet still automatically join a clan is something I wouldn't like to see returning.

­­­­­­­­ .:
Blasty
the Blue
:.­­­­­­
Blasty
// @BlastytheBlue // Blasty#5167
| Co-owner of Mine Nation

01-Feb-2015 23:23:05

J4ron
Oct Member 2013

J4ron

Posts: 10,558 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Colifin said :
Nothing short of making them automatically join the clan chat during their probationary period will work. They need to feel like they're actually a part of the clan during that time. Posting even though there's a target on my head if I make any wrong move.

What colifin said is the only way as to moving forward with a solution. We're not against the update because of people having to guest, we're against it because of the 7 days.

We're allowed our opinions as to why we don't like it, like you're allowed yours for liking it. Don't belittle our opinions and ideas because you simply like this change. Not everyone likes this change, accept it, and try work with us with ideas to help solve this issue, which is what this thread is for. A whitelist, whilst nice and needed does not solve the issue that those against the update have.

Me and another clan leader in the CLF have been threatened with bans because we oppose this update, when we have said minimal things that are offensive to people, yet people have called us negative, toxic and have told us to get over ourselves multiple times with no punishment, because they are for the update.

I still stand by my statement that the 7 days must go, if you're wanting a whitelist, make a new thread and people can support it there imo, because that is not the issue we are trying to solve. (even tho a whitelist would be nice)

I will not be replying to any replies to this post, because they will possibly involve some bait to get me to reply, and in turn banned for having an opinion. Owner of
All But Forgotten
NZ/Aus/USA based social clan.

02-Feb-2015 01:51:05 - Last edited on 02-Feb-2015 02:23:40 by J4ron

SofaKing

SofaKing

Posts: 1,854 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
A whitelist would in fact solve the issues brought to clans cause of the cooldown. The issue with players not being able to join for 7 days, keeping tabs on players who wish to join, and the issue with how clans have to keep their chats open to trolls in order for their recruits who have cooldown to chat. This is why it's been suggested here. It's nessesary to have now. A new thread won't be needed for the whitelist suggestion.

02-Feb-2015 02:04:08

Colifin
Jan Member 2006

Colifin

Posts: 17,353 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Blasty said :
Making it possible to become idle and non-engaged and yet still automatically join a clan is something I wouldn't like to see returning.
Sorry, but (in less harsh terms) these are the people that my clan are made up of. Casual players who just want a place to chat. They're not going to go to any effort to find the "clan that's right for them." If any more work is required on their part, chances are they'll either stay in the clan that they're currently (unhappily) in, or just go clanless.

Why should people be forced to go on a lengthy quest to find the ideal clan for them? Not everyone is willing to do that. This update is trying to force that approach to recruiting. And naturally, it skews in favor of large, established clans with requirements and applications. Small, social, no application/requirement clans are left to die.
What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.

02-Feb-2015 03:51:01

Body btw

Body btw

Posts: 19,488 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I actually really agree with what
Colifin
said. I mean, a lot. He made some amazing points. I've read a lot of leaders here on the forums that make players jump through hoops and go through a maze to join their clan (which is totally fine), but there's also a lot of clan's that cater to the more casual players who aren't going to do that.

For instance, my target is high level players, we are a high level oriented clan. It's a tough group to interest in some cases. So we have a more casual, laid back, no requirements but encourage everything type of atmosphere. I recruit aggressively for high level players that aren't willing or interested in all the bells and whistles of a difficult application process. They want a great, high level clan, with no responsibility (this is just a game, afterall) and this is what my clan offers. If the recruiting process for my clan was a 60 ft water-hose, the new cooldown system is like a 2-ton weight in the middle of my hose.

The result is exactly what Colifin said.. our target player's don't always know what they want or even want to bother with a difficult recruiting process. This makes it extremely difficult for us to interest individuals in our clan's without them straying off and/or just deciding to remain clanless or fall prey to more established clan's that didn't/don't interest them initially. Hmm, I have more to say but will stop here and read some responses.
"Why are you posting threads, asking questions and making discussion???"


All I do anymore is fish - 2017

02-Feb-2015 09:56:08 - Last edited on 02-Feb-2015 09:57:16 by Body btw

Thylordship
Apr Member 2023

Thylordship

Posts: 1,372 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Body btw said :
I don't really understand Thylord's argument here. The old probation system was in effect for years (and the general recruiting process for years more) and they were equally susceptible to people "bothering" them to join as they would be with this newly proposed idea for knowing how long a player's been on cooldown.

I really don't think it's an issue and that is why. If anything it should be less of a problem with cooldown in effect as people may not bother if they see they are on cooldown. Before, no one was on cooldown and could change clan's immediately. You can still look to see if someone is not in a clan, we're just talking about seeing if someone is on cooldown/how many days left. The probation system worked by having no one, not even the person who's affected by it, aware of how long it lasted. And if you're on probation, it meant you're already in a clan so probation has nothing to do with being recruited. Now, the person in question is always aware of how long he's on cooldown and can plan accordingly. Further, he has complete control over who knows when he's off cooldown.

Maybe people won't care if clans they guest in can view it, maybe they will. Now that a few have responded to this point and several more have read it, as it's deemed irrelevant, I'll accept that. I just figured it should at least cross our minds during this brainstorm session.

02-Feb-2015 10:08:11

Mod Matthe

Mod Matthe

Jagex Moderator Forum Profile Posts by user
We have not forgotten this thread - just some of the answers require some technical thought and planning.

What we can't do, despite the requests, is tell you all the possible solutions and let you pick one - that is not really how software development in a live environment works. What we do is much like we have asked you to do, come up with multiple possible improvements and then compare them to the detail of the technical facilities and the design requirement. Until you have cemented down some concepts we can't know if they will work or not.

But there are some interesting suggestions on here (and I'll never say something is not technically possible unless I have been told so by someone who actually does the development). :)

Mod MattHe
Community Development
| Account Help | Payment Support | Technical Help | Follow me on Twitter |
Mod MattHe | Former Community Manager, now in Events & occasional Lore Monkey

02-Feb-2015 13:52:34

Quick find code: 86-87-433-65562986 Back to Top