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Chambers of Xeric Revisited

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Jubsie
Dec Member 2016

Jubsie

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P2

PUZZLE ROOMS

Puzzle rooms are a bit different as it's more about their speed than the difficulty. There are only 4 options. It's pretty widely accepted that tightrope and crabs are good, Ice demon and Theiving are bad.

I won't generally skip a raid because of the puzzles as they're all easy, it's just nicer to have tightrope and crabs as they're quicker. I don't think increasing the points they give is the right way to make them worth while, it would need to be a significant increase as a majority of the points for a raid come from Olm anyway. The main complaint is they're slow.

Tightrope -Fast and good points ~2 min room

Crabs - Fast and bad points ~ 2min room

Ice Demon - Slow and bad points ~5min room

Thieving - Slow and bad points ~5 min room



I think the solution here would be to make Thieving and Ice Demon quicker rooms as the points here don't really matter. It's more about getting to Olm as fast as possible as that's where a majority of points for the raid come from.



Making these rooms ~2-3 min would make them less undesirable. Note. These are suggested solo values. I'm not sure how they scale for groups

Thieving - 10 grubs required instead of 30

Ice Demon - 16 Kindling instead of 2 x 24 and reduce the demons def or HP

Ward Scrolls and Scouting

I do like the idea of Ward Scrolls but I think removing the ability to scout or know what rooms you have in the raid would really kill raids for a lot of people.

You would need to bring in gear for EVERY room as you'll never know what you need. Say you block Vespula and Vanguards with the scrolls, you would still need to bring a stab weapon incase you get Vasa, crush weapon incase you get Tekton, Pickaxe for Guardians, etc.

With the ability to scout currently for example, I know I never do Tekton so I never bring an Elder Maul. But not being able to scout, I wouldn't know if Tekton was in the raid or not. If I get to the last room and he's there, GF.

28-Jan-2019 20:07:46

Jubsie
Dec Member 2016

Jubsie

Posts: 5,861 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
P3

There's two ways to look at how to create raids

RNG Based. Roll a layout, reroll if you don't like it (Scouting)

Customised. Choose the rooms you want

Obviously fully customised raids wouldn't be a good thing because everyone would choose the most efficient lay out every time.

Having to scout is not really a good mechanic in itself but it does provide a mixture of randomness and customisation

As a note, having to scout a raid by enter, exit, reset the party, repeat is so fucking annoying. If we could just reset the raid at the board it would be 1000% better. And scouting without an alt sucks. With an alt scouting you can effectively bank before having to start a raid. You may as well just put a bank chest in the pre-raid lobby.

Anyway, somewhere in the middle would be ideal but it's how to get there which I guess is what the scrolls are trying to do.

Knowing what rooms are in the raid is important. Going in blind would make raiding extremely annoying, which is why scouting and 3rd part clients are used.

I think a combination of being able to see what rooms you have and using warding scrolls to block a couple of unwanted rooms would be a decent solution.

Realistically, Irons probably wouldn't use the scrolls as I'm guessing they'd be scouting rooms without those bosses so wouldn't get the scrolls anyway. And everyone else would just buy them from GE. They may as well just be rewarded randomly.



I think overall, the ideal would be a combination of being able to see what rooms you have + using warding scrolls to block a couple of unwanted rooms + faster Ice Demon and Theiving rooms + improvement on a couple of other rooms.

28-Jan-2019 20:08:01

S Klasse AMG

S Klasse AMG

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Why do this now than plan properly earlier? Does the developer not take consequences of their lack of foresight?
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29-Jan-2019 15:38:04

Hokage Jason

Hokage Jason

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WayTooPosted said :
Zelda Krazy said :

Ward scrolls are very interesting, but I don't think they should be tradable. I understand you're trying to prevent 3rd party scouting, but making these tradable just completely changes the meta, especially for ironmen that would just buy the scroll on their main and run 1+1 raids. I'm not sure scroll are the right way to go about it. Also not sure I fully understand the mechanics, would it completely dodge the room, or would it replace the room? If it dodges, we could theoretically get a 1 combat 1 puzzle raid, which should not be possible.

I know it is difficult to read details, so let me try to further explain the clear blog post.

1. The scrolls would give you a CHANCE to dodge certain rooms. Thus, you can still get a room you didn't want even though you applied a scroll.
2. As stated in the blog, there is a minimum of guaranteed rooms so you cannot get a 1 combat 1 puzzle room. I think this was a pretty obvious point.

Lol get your condescending attitude out of here, you’re the one who can’t ewad not the person you’re quoting. People like you suck mate =)

30-Jan-2019 23:00:25

Hokage Jason

Hokage Jason

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I’m all for lowering Tekton a defence, boosting points in thriving room, and stopping vespula from hatching those things earlier, but absolutely no way should you remove scouting.

1. You used to claim OSRS was about the players deciding, and you would only ever change things without giving us a vote if it was game altering and affected the longevity of the games life. Raid scouting is in no way broken, game altering, or will it have any impact on the longevity of the game. In fact you’re probably just going to piss off lots of players and make them quit. Frankly if you care at all about being true to your “players decide” motto you have no right doing this without a vote.

2. You waited too long. Same with DWH, you wait until all the big name streamers abuse safe spots/scouting for their tbows/dwh’s, and then you nerf it and fist the community. It’s ufair, and once again, is something that SHOULD HAVE BEEN VOTED ON.

3. Completely screwing solo players, irons especially. I personally only do solo raids. It fits in with my Ironman experience better, and this game has a toxic player base I won’t interact with if not required, so I stick to solos. I can beat all the rooms (unless vesp hatched the little guys before I get there (which should NOT happen, I know you said this is intended but frankly it’s stupid) but that doesn’t mean I’m eager to do it. Solo players will be at a huge disadvantage when scroll parties become meta.

4. You need to scout unless you want to waste 2 hours playing solo. From what I’ve seen raids can range from 5 to 8 rooms. An easy line up of 5 of the faster rooms I can solo in about an hour, maybe less if I had tbow/more experience. but an 8 room raid that includes vanguards, Tekton, thriving, vasa and whatever else is probably goin to take me close to 2 hours, maybe even more. I am not about to spend 2 %&$@!@ hours raiding just for some gems and mahogany planks.

30-Jan-2019 23:19:09 - Last edited on 30-Jan-2019 23:30:39 by Hokage Jason

Hokage Jason

Hokage Jason

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(Continued)
5. As I mentioned in point 4, some solo players will have to spend up to, or maybe over, 2 hours in some raids without scouting. Not only is this way to long to spend for one chest, it also heavily complicates things for people with actual lives. There’s people with children/pets that require attention, not everyone is a streamer who can sit at a computer for 8 hours straight. Raids are time consuming enough as is. I’m not keen on the idea of spending an hour and a half in a raid just to g at auto logged before olm because my dog puked or started whining.

6. This is going to result in way to much wasted time. There’s people who simply cannot do Tekton or vespula or vanguards. Some may be simply due to incompetence, whereas some may be due to a lack of gear. (Have fun soloing Tekton without a dwh or bgs) So you’re goin to get solo players spending an hour in a raid just to abandon all that time and supplies because they had a room they couldn’t do last on the lineup.

It’s just a bad idea. Really bad. Alsod the scrolls are kind of a dumb idea, both in the lore you made up for them and the impact they have on the game.

To end things I want to briefly return to my first point, raid scouting is not game breaking, it’s not destroying the economy, and it’s not affecting the longevity of the game. There’s no reason to patch this aside from what I assume the case is, in that one or more of the mods involved in the creation of CoX is butt hurt people Arnt doing it the way they intended. Get over it, you should of designed it better in the first place. If you wanna change it, poll it, or quit pretending the players have more say than they do.

30-Jan-2019 23:29:41

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