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In Defense of Saradomin

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ZAmorakZaros
Apr Member 2013

ZAmorakZaros

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Hguoh said :
Wahisietel said :
Hguoh said :
Padomenes said :
The God-Emperor from 40k makes questionable decisions, some of which are absolutely worse than that of Saradomin's to ensure Order survives against Chaos, in order to protect everybody from it(Yet people still hate on and think what Saradomin's doing is too harsh). People stick to him in the Warhammer 40k universe knowing at the same time if he dies all hell will break loose and it will mean the end of mankind.

That's just the thing though. We've seen the world without Saradomin, hell failed to break loose and mankind thrived . Granted, there were some close calls along the way, but there have also been a number of close calls since his return as well.

We've seen the world when Saradomin is the most widely worshipped god. We pretty much only had mankind thriving in the Saradominist kingdoms (Asgarnia, Misthalin & Kandarin), and this was with Saradomin's indirect control via the Temple Knights.. In non-Saradominist areas like the desert, Fremennik Province, Eastern Lands, ect. things were significantly less safe.

And yet this thriving did not occur until Runecrafting was rediscovered, having literally nothing to do with the worship of Saradomin.
And how many times have we had to safe those saradominist kingdoms?

The kingdoms may have gotten weaker and weaker in saradomin's absence. NO
I do not ship ZamorakxZaros.
I follow them. And Marimbo, the best t5 god.

01-Mar-2017 14:49:26

Padomenes

Padomenes

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Kinky Sliske said :
if only because he and my Purple Lord are similar. Too simila And? It is the same way with Seren to Armadyl and Zamorak to Bandos. So why does it matter that much?

Quite a significant amount of Zarosian humans also switched to Saradomin because they disagreed with Zamorakian views and believed in order, that was where we got our knowledge of how to hurt/kill vampyres(Sithril and Holy Water) from. Infact as Mod Jack says many humans living in the present day former areas of the empire are descended from the many human survivors of it, some converted but eventually all to most did so(Perhaps bringing some of their own teachings into the Church of Saradomin/Blue Wizards' institutions etc): https://twitter.com/JagexJack/status/822095473859264513

04-Mar-2017 04:00:38 - Last edited on 04-Mar-2017 04:01:04 by Padomenes

Rifleavenger
May Member 2022

Rifleavenger

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Kinky Sliske said :

I will still oppose him when I get the chance, if only because he and my Purple Lord are similar. Too similar.

Then why not scheme to have Saradomin come under Zaro's control? I believe even Zaros himself indicates he could find a place for Saradomin in his plans.

Like, in general, I'd think that if you found a faction similar to your own you'd attempt to ally with them or get them to join you.

My biggest hope is that it will be possible to build an alliance of factions/gods down the road, should the player try to go down that route. And I'd prefer the alliance to be of relative equals too; the gods that indicate they'd be interested in such a thing (Saradomin, Zaros) also outright state or imply that they should be in charge. Armadyl kind of seems to advocate something like that if you listen to his followers, but he's never put anything concrete forth.

04-Mar-2017 06:47:56

Astraea L

Astraea L

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Darc Oejder said :
What do you mean I should call Garlandia's wing ripping barbaric and cruel only for the right reasons? Speaking sense into her and convincing her would make all those who doubted him because of her to change back immediatly. This action in particular is not excusable in my opinion and I find it hard to understand why you and the other Saradominist defend this abuse. If a politician changed their mind on an issue, would that automatically make everyone who supported them also change their opinion? You make it sound like it's easy to convince an entire population to change their beliefs.

I'm also not saying you have to find it excusable, what I mean by "you should consider it barbaric and cruel only for the right reasons" is that you should understand that Saradomin did it because he thought his people would be endangered if he did not, not because he mutilates people simply for not wanting to follow him. If you think that was unjustified, that's fair, but my problem is with people using the Garlandia incident as "proof" that Saradomin kills anyone who doesn't follow him, when the situation was more complicated than that. Darc Oejder said :
He encouraged a fight between Zamorak and Armadyl like a child would do without seeing the real threat that is Sliske. Just because Sliske was a threat didn't mean Zamorak wasn't also a threat. From the perspective of a Saradominist or Armadylean, is there really any harm that would have come from just killing Zamorak then and there?
Skystone Jexel
, Supreme Warden of The Skystone Order and
Saradominist
Lorehound

The sword of the righteous and the shield of the defenseless.

21-Mar-2017 19:34:38

Astraea L

Astraea L

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Darc Oejder said :
Zaros brought to Gielinor 20k+ demons from Infernus which is at the opposite end of the universe. Opening up a portal for a few thousand Naragi to transport them to another nearby planet is a piece of cake in comparisson for a tier 5+ god like Saradomin.

Claiming he was too injured to do it is silly. Was he injured for years or what? It doesn't take long to open a portal so being exposed to Tuska for long isn't an issue either.

Saradomin just gave up on the naragi. Zaros is a tier 2 god, which is -vastly- more powerful than tier 5, and he wasn't in the middle of fighting for survival against other gods of equal or greater power at the time. Furthermore, Zaros brought only around 100 demons to Gielinor at first, not 20,000, using Loarnab's power to transport the rest. We simply don't know enough about what Saradomin was capable of at the time to infer that he could have easily opened a portal for thousands of naragi to escape without getting himself and/or his forces killed in the process. We don't know what it takes to make a portal between worlds; it could have taken several days and a massive expenditure of energy.

It is reasonable to assume that Saradomin had no intention of abandoning Naragun at first, otherwise he would have just done that in the first place instead of bothering with the war. It's entirely possible that by the time he decided to abandon Naragun, it was too late to save the naragi. For example, if he had no way of reaching the surviving naragi because they were in hiding or because Tuska or Skargaroth were stopping him, or if he was injured in a battle with Tuska and was forced to flee immediately in that moment to survive.

I find it extremely unlikely that Saradomin would have allowed the naragi to die if it was within his power to save them, as it not only goes against everything he stands for, but would have denied him potential followers.
Skystone Jexel
, Supreme Warden of The Skystone Order and
Saradominist
Lorehound

The sword of the righteous and the shield of the defenseless.

21-Mar-2017 20:02:36 - Last edited on 21-Mar-2017 20:03:30 by Astraea L

Raleirosen

Raleirosen

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Astraea L said :
I find it extremely unlikely that Saradomin would have allowed the naragi to die if it was within his power to save them, as it not only goes against everything he stands for, but would have denied him potential followers. My headcanon is that Saradomin abandoned Naragun (and by extension, any naragi that were left) once he became convinced it was a lost cause. There was nothing left to gain, there was no good left to do, it was better to just get out and move on. Tactical withdrawal.

You might not like it since it makes Saradomin look worse, but I think it's more realistic to have Naragun be a thorough failure for him. That way his regret is more powerful and genuine. Patrolling Lore FC almost makes you wish for a Great Revision.

21-Mar-2017 21:02:38

Astraea L

Astraea L

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Raleirosen said :
My headcanon is that Saradomin abandoned Naragun (and by extension, any naragi that were left) once he became convinced it was a lost cause. There was nothing left to gain, there was no good left to do, it was better to just get out and move on. Tactical withdrawal.

You might not like it since it makes Saradomin look worse, but I think it's more realistic to have Naragun be a thorough failure for him. That way his regret is more powerful and genuine. That's kind of what I meant, actually. My headcanon is that by the time Saradomin realized Naragun was a lost cause, it was too late to save the naragi, and had he withdrawn from the war sooner, he might still have been able to save them. Thus, it was ultimately his failure to protect them that led to their downfall, a failure that haunts him to this day.
Skystone Jexel
, Supreme Warden of The Skystone Order and
Saradominist
Lorehound

The sword of the righteous and the shield of the defenseless.

21-Mar-2017 21:17:20

Raleirosen

Raleirosen

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Astraea L said :
That's kind of what I meant, actually. My headcanon is that by the time Saradomin realized Naragun was a lost cause, it was too late to save the naragi, and had he withdrawn from the war sooner, he might still have been able to save them. Thus, it was ultimately his failure to protect them that led to their downfall, a failure that haunts him to this day. Ah, I see. Well then the only difference between our assessments is that I think it's possible Saradomin could've saved some of the remaining naragi, he just chose not to... either because they wanted nothing to do with him, or Saradomin simply wanted to leave everything behind, or they simply weren't in sight and he didn't bother searching them out before leaving (probably all three).

I imagine Saradomin turning away from the wasteland of Naragun and shedding a single tear; maybe there were some innocents left to save, but it wasn't worth remaining there any longer. Patrolling Lore FC almost makes you wish for a Great Revision.

21-Mar-2017 21:34:56 - Last edited on 21-Mar-2017 21:40:01 by Raleirosen

BarryManilow
Sep Member 2016

BarryManilow

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The mixed reception about Saradomin is in large part due to the inconsistent writing and the developer's insistence on Mary Sueing Zaros and Guthix to make them seem virtuous in a pantheon of morally ambiguous deities.

It's one thing to go through Saradomin's journey of being an assholish younger god and learning to find a better balance of temperance and authority after being exiled by Guthix, as it was implied by years of lore before the release of The World Wakes. It's another add content that details Saradomin wiping out an entire city on Guthix's planet, bringing destruction to entire worlds, and punishing his own followers for trangressions on his authority. They made Saradomin a lot more villainous than he actually is to push the narrative that Godlessness, Guthix, Zaros, and Armadyl are far better because they're about personal freedom, averting a big unseen threat that nobody but a handful of individuals know about, or protecting a small and selective contigent of your followers and saying fuck all to the world when they get wiped out due to its own incompetence.

I'm glad that Jagex managed to backtrack significantly from the "absolute power corrupts absolutely" narrative that they were trying to push on Saradomin. I think that the character has a lot of potential to be multi-dimensional. But the significant aging of the character where he's older than Guthix (while having a fraction of his power somehow) and turning him into a affable moustache twirling control freak turned a lot of people against him.

I really wish the developers would try to make each one of the gods flawed in their own way, but truly believe what they preach. Saradomin believes that order is the best way to avoid conflict. Zamorak believes in Chaos to rebel against his fate is dictated by Mah and Zaros. Where are the flaws on Zaros, Guthix, or Seren?
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12-Apr-2017 15:55:39 - Last edited on 12-Apr-2017 15:57:06 by BarryManilow

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