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In Defense of Saradomin

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Aeldari

Aeldari

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Darc Oejder said :
It doesn't mean he was defeated maybe he just had enough and wanted a world without any gods so he can spread his philosophy. I disagree, from the evidence we have it appears Saradomin wanted to rule over and later on protect the Naragi. I do not see him leaving Naragun of his own volition without necessity.
~Lore Hound~
/~Enticed Clan~

29-Jan-2017 00:44:49

Raleirosen

Raleirosen

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Aeldari said :
I disagree, from the evidence we have it appears Saradomin wanted to rule over and later on protect the Naragi. I do not see him leaving Naragun of his own volition without necessity. That "necessity" could very well be simply his realization or assessment that Naragun had become a lost cause, and thus abandoning it. Patrolling Lore FC almost makes you wish for a Great Revision.

29-Jan-2017 07:52:27

Rifleavenger
May Member 2022

Rifleavenger

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All this ought to be self-evident. Saradomin's character is textbook "well intentioned authoritarian ruler." He sacrifices many of his own principles in the belief that doing so is the only way to ensure the survival of a society founded upon them. The ends justify the means, we must war against evil or be consumed by it. Anyone who still sees him as flawless paragon of cosmic good or tries to portray him as a totally self centered demiurge is willfully misreading his characterization.

All of the non-elder gods in Runescape are just very powerful people. The question isn't "who is objectively right," but "who do you agree with?" Given a certain outlook on the world I know some real people have, Saradomin's viewpoint is not unacceptable. Could he have made some better choices (ex. letting Garlandia hang herself by trying to negotiate with the other race and getting killed, if Saradomin was so sure it was going to happen)? Sure, but if he were perfect he'd be a Gary Stu instead of an appropriately flawed character and human being.

28-Feb-2017 17:49:03 - Last edited on 28-Feb-2017 17:50:16 by Rifleavenger

Ancient Drew

Ancient Drew

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Rifleavenger said :
All this ought to be self-evident. Saradomin's character is textbook "well intentioned authoritarian ruler." He sacrifices many of his own principles in the belief that doing so is the only way to ensure the survival of a society founded upon them. The ends justify the means, we must war against evil or be consumed by it. Anyone who still sees him as flawless paragon of cosmic good or tries to portray him as a totally self centered demiurge is willfully misreading his characterization.

All of the non-elder gods in Runescape are just very powerful people. The question isn't "who is objectively right," but "who do you agree with?" Given a certain outlook on the world I know some real people have, Saradomin's viewpoint is not unacceptable. Could he have made some better choices (ex. letting Garlandia hang herself by trying to negotiate with the other race and getting killed, if Saradomin was so sure it was going to happen)? Sure, but if he were perfect he'd be a Gary Stu instead of an appropriately flawed character and human being. Agreed here. If anything the whole Sixth Age, from Guthix's memories both in TWW and the Memorial, to Sir Owen becoming half corrupted (not fully; this proves Saradomin isn't a monster but not a paragon of perfection either), even to the Endgame and trying to get his daughter back, all just comes to show that Saradomin is nothing more or less than a normal human being from Teragard with T3 god power.

Of course, he could have been more patient and calm in many situations as with Garlandia. But he likely feels pressured into making the fastest acting choices he could so that he can maintain his order and allow it to flourish, while minimising the chances of anarchy tearing it apart and causing untold suffering. Prepare for hell on RuneScape in Naval Cataclysm!

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28-Feb-2017 21:49:27

Kinky Sliske
Dec Member 2023

Kinky Sliske

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Thanks for your assessment, OP.. It's good to get some fresh air in the attic now and then. While I don't much like Saradomin due to how he's been with me, I don't think he deserves the spew he gets. And of course, I've not helped him much, so my experiences are tempered with his (understandable) distrust of me.

I had once thought that it might be humbling to meet the gods but then I did meet them and they ended up being very, very underwhelming . Not at all what I expected.

I remember being particularly (negatively) surprised with my first meeting with Saradomin. He was actually the first god I encountered. Oops. I did the DoC quest... you know what they say about first impressions?

He had a plain slate to shape my view of him without any preconceptions to clear away. I was an open book, ready to accept any words of wisdom he had to offer.

This was, after all, Saradomin. The god my first 5 years of Runescape had shaped to be a god of goodness, order, peace, light, and pleasantness.

Yet it was not to be. My first impression of Saradomin was him esplodin' up a cabbage patch. When I knelt to show my respect to this God, Saradomin, the very first god I ever met, he tells me he could have used my devotion in the Battle of Lumbridge . I wasn't even playing then! D:

I had held my heart out in trembling, unsure hands, practically begging for the guidance I had been told he could offer... and Saradomin spat all over it.

I could be talking to you now as Tiny Saradomin, pride of the Big Blue. Instead, largely due to the power of first impressions, I am a tiny purple thorn in his heel.

Still, I've noticed a trend lately where he's being portrayed more positively again. Hopefully he'll be able to redeem his Evil Chickenry and regain some of his popularity. It would be nice to see some forgiveness.

I will still oppose him when I get the chance, if only because he and my Purple Lord are similar. Too similar, perhaps, to co-exist.

Still.

It would be nice.
Don't mind me, just slinking into your thread...

01-Mar-2017 08:53:18

Padomenes

Padomenes

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Rifleavenger said :
All this ought to be self-evident. Saradomin's character is textbook "well intentioned authoritarian ruler." He sacrifices many of his own principles in the belief that doing so is the only way to ensure the survival of a society founded upon them. The ends justify the means, we must war against evil or be consumed by it. Anyone who still sees him as flawless paragon of cosmic good or tries to portray him as a totally self centered demiurge is willfully misreading his characterization.

All of the non-elder gods in Runescape are just very powerful people. The question isn't "who is objectively right," but "who do you agree with?" Given a certain outlook on the world I know some real people have, Saradomin's viewpoint is not unacceptable. Could he have made some better choices (ex. letting Garlandia hang herself by trying to negotiate with the other race and getting killed, if Saradomin was so sure it was going to happen)? Sure, but if he were perfect he'd be a Gary Stu instead of an appropriately flawed character and human being. Yeah what I'm saying is it would have been better if Saradomin was seen in a mixed manner similar to the characters that derive from the same trope being used for him; the 'God-Emperor of Mankind' from Warhammer 40k and Elder Maxson from Fallout 4 which is what I wish for rather than "complete satan".

The God-Emperor from 40k makes questionable decisions, some of which are absolutely worse than that of Saradomin's to ensure Order survives against Chaos, in order to protect everybody from it(Yet people still hate on and think what Saradomin's doing is too harsh). People stick to him in the Warhammer 40k universe knowing at the same time if he dies all hell will break loose and it will mean the end of mankind.

01-Mar-2017 11:25:13 - Last edited on 01-Mar-2017 11:29:35 by Padomenes

Hguoh

Hguoh

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Padomenes said :
The God-Emperor from 40k makes questionable decisions, some of which are absolutely worse than that of Saradomin's to ensure Order survives against Chaos, in order to protect everybody from it(Yet people still hate on and think what Saradomin's doing is too harsh). People stick to him in the Warhammer 40k universe knowing at the same time if he dies all hell will break loose and it will mean the end of mankind.

That's just the thing though. We've seen the world without Saradomin, hell failed to break loose and mankind thrived . Granted, there were some close calls along the way, but there have also been a number of close calls since his return as well.

Padomenes said :
Yeah what I'm saying is it would have been better if Saradomin was seen in a mixed manner similar to the characters that derive from the same trope being used for him; the 'God-Emperor of Mankind' from Warhammer 40k and Elder Maxson from Fallout 4 which is what I wish for rather than "complete satan".

Saradomin's current characterization paints him as a massive self-righteous ass. Definitely not 'complete Satan' (that would be 5th age portrayals of Zamorak), just an often pompous and occasionally hypocritical dick.

01-Mar-2017 12:39:27 - Last edited on 01-Mar-2017 12:39:59 by Hguoh

Wahisietel
Oct Member 2005

Wahisietel

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Hguoh said :
Padomenes said :
The God-Emperor from 40k makes questionable decisions, some of which are absolutely worse than that of Saradomin's to ensure Order survives against Chaos, in order to protect everybody from it(Yet people still hate on and think what Saradomin's doing is too harsh). People stick to him in the Warhammer 40k universe knowing at the same time if he dies all hell will break loose and it will mean the end of mankind.

That's just the thing though. We've seen the world without Saradomin, hell failed to break loose and mankind thrived . Granted, there were some close calls along the way, but there have also been a number of close calls since his return as well.

We've seen the world when Saradomin is the most widely worshipped god. We pretty much only had mankind thriving in the Saradominist kingdoms (Asgarnia, Misthalin & Kandarin), and this was with Saradomin's indirect control via the Temple Knights.. In non-Saradominist areas like the desert, Fremennik Province, Eastern Lands, ect. things were significantly less safe. You never were our brightest star, Khazard. 'Vermin slaughtered like lambs'? What does that even mean?

01-Mar-2017 12:46:54 - Last edited on 01-Mar-2017 12:47:47 by Wahisietel

Hguoh

Hguoh

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Wahisietel said :
Hguoh said :
Padomenes said :
The God-Emperor from 40k makes questionable decisions, some of which are absolutely worse than that of Saradomin's to ensure Order survives against Chaos, in order to protect everybody from it(Yet people still hate on and think what Saradomin's doing is too harsh). People stick to him in the Warhammer 40k universe knowing at the same time if he dies all hell will break loose and it will mean the end of mankind.

That's just the thing though. We've seen the world without Saradomin, hell failed to break loose and mankind thrived . Granted, there were some close calls along the way, but there have also been a number of close calls since his return as well.

We've seen the world when Saradomin is the most widely worshipped god. We pretty much only had mankind thriving in the Saradominist kingdoms (Asgarnia, Misthalin & Kandarin), and this was with Saradomin's indirect control via the Temple Knights.. In non-Saradominist areas like the desert, Fremennik Province, Eastern Lands, ect. things were significantly less safe.

And yet this thriving did not occur until Runecrafting was rediscovered, having literally nothing to do with the worship of Saradomin.

01-Mar-2017 12:54:18

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