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In Defense of Saradomin

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Ancient Drew

Ancient Drew

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My only problem with Saradomin's actions is that he was a little too quick. Often you do need to think and act fast, but there will come times when you need to stop and think things through before you act, plan ahead to minimise the consequences and ensure the most prosperity. All actions have consequences; Garlandia now has a grudge against Saradomin, although she seemingly still seeks to pursue a path of diplomacy.

I can imagine the scenario playing out.

Garlandia: "No. We have fought enough; it is about time we lay down our spears and offer them a treaty of peace. Why must we continue to spill blood needlessly? This will solve nothing!"

Now at this point Saradomin, as a human, would inwardly agree with her and want the conflict to stop. But then recollections from experience kick in, and he fears that the other natives would tear every Icyene they encounter to shreds. They're outnumbered and had been rent apart before Saradomin came along. So he has to find a way to remind the Icyene that the other natives who have been fighting them will do that without hesitation; he's seen something like this happen so many times on other worlds, and can't let it happen again.

Saradomin:
"This is what they will do to you all. This is why you must fight back now, while you still can! They will not hesitate or show mercy. Do not show it to them, lest at the mercy of the long winter you shall be. Join me, and you fight for prosperity and peace!"


I'm not sure what the exact situation was at that point (it may be revealed in DOC2), or how much time he had, but if it was down to me I would have showed them images of what would have happened, or what happened on previous worlds. But that's just me. Prepare for hell on RuneScape in Naval Cataclysm!

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30-Apr-2017 21:52:59

Raleirosen

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Aeldari said :
I can not say I agree with your opinion, but it did catch me off guard and gave me a good laugh. Aha~, it isn't really my opinion; I actually think Saradomin is pretty cool. Just felt like bumping this thread with a facetious comment. Patrolling Lore FC almost makes you wish for a Great Revision.

03-May-2017 07:34:01

William Witt
Aug Member 2023

William Witt

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Raleirosen said :
Aeldari said :
I can not say I agree with your opinion, but it did catch me off guard and gave me a good laugh. Aha~, it isn't really my opinion; I actually think Saradomin is pretty cool. Just felt like bumping this thread with a facetious comment.

I think Saradomin is a pretty cool guy. Eh rips wigns and doesnt afraid of anything.
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04-May-2017 18:06:51

Wolffi
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Wolffi

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I've taken the time and read through the initial posts and some of your replies later on (a few pages worth) and I felt like I needed to assess a few things after what we spoke of at the house party last night. Albeit not in my nature, I'd like to at least try and use the game directly as a counter-argument, rather than trying to disprove any of your views. Any feedback to these is welcome.

First, the wand. The Death of Chivalry is one quest in which the Wand of Resurrection's powers are both discussed and used to detail. I believe Jagex did an overall great job with the quest but in their effort to make ''player choices mean more'' they have also left a few points of the quest up to discussion. In specific circumstances (If The World Wakes was completed before the quest) Saradomin can be questioned after he blasts the player, there as the World Guardian. You made it a point that Saradomin used only force necessary to pry the wand from the player to rescue Sir Owen. If the quest has been completed beforehand you will encounter the following dialogue:

P: I should be immune to god magic! How did you take the wand?
S: It is true. Thanks to the protection of Guthix... I cannot teleport you against your will, and much of my power seems ineffective against you. As you have seen, though, you are not completely beyond our reach.

While this is under specific circumstances and as such only makes sense because of the World Guardian status as given by Guthix, it would in this instance for some of us players mean that Saradomin might be incapable of using more than the displayed force against us.
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01-Oct-2017 08:34:14

Wolffi
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Wolffi

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In theme with this particular quest and Sir Owen's corruption, I would have to make a serious point concerning Saradomin's actions. After resurrecting and inevitably corrupting the knight, Saradomin forcibly releases Sir Owen from his duty to the Temple Knights and Saradomin himself. He casts Sir Owen outside of his peers due to his corruption, regardless of the powers he has at hand.

P: What has happened to Sir Owen?
S: He is corrupted, like the centaurs before him. A creature consumed with the desire to destroy purity.
O: There is hope, my lord. My arm is cold and skeletal, yet I can still control it. I can sense the virtue in you, my friend [the player]. The purity of your heart that allowed you to claim the wand. It is like a white-hot fire searing my senses. I yearn to snuff out that light, but I can resist this temptation. I will not allow the corruption to consume me.
S: No, Sir Owen. You have suffered enough. You may feel that you are in control of yourself, but the corruption will consume you in time. I must relieve you of your service to me. You cannot remain a Temple Knight. I cannot endanger my people by bringing you into their mist.

Granted, perhaps being amid the Temple Knights with this virtue in their hearts might overwhelm Sir Owen and cause him to lose what control he has of his corruption.. but Saradomin essentially isolates Sir Owen from his life long duty to Saradomin. The one instance in which Sir Owen showed direct purity and dedication to Saradomin led to himself being corrupted and his faith to the one god he has dedicated his entire life to questioned. Saradomin was not as pure as even Sir Owen himself. I hope this decision to cast Sir Owen alone from everyone to ''protect the people'' will not turn Sir Owen from his devout path to peace. I would not want to see Owen turn evil because of Saradomin's actions, inevitably causing him to resurrect corrupted centaurs in the next quest of his lore.
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01-Oct-2017 08:46:35 - Last edited on 01-Oct-2017 09:32:53 by Wolffi

Wolffi
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Wolffi

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I will not try to make a point of the Naragi. It's likely that destruction would've been of the same scale or more if Saradomin had not been there in the first place. But I will touch the subject of Garlandia. You make a case represented in the game as well, that Saradomin indeed was rallying the icyene for war and that her wings were a mere casualty for the greater cause that he needed the icyene for. I'd like to acknowledge that at the point of this happening, which was indeed at New Domina, Saradomin was not in a hurry to rally the icyene. The measures he took were drastic and perhaps in his mind he rationalized it, but he could've as easily continued to speak to the icyene to let them understand the situation. Furthermore, Saradomin, a leader for the icyene, did nothing in his power to help Garlandia after he tore her wings. He straight out abandoned her to the mercy of powers to be. Saradomin, like with Sir Owen, has created another potentially dangerous enemy to his cause. Not only is Garlandia powerful and combat trained in her own right, she is privy to the ways of the icyene and she was a noble among her people, surely worth some respect from her peers regardless of Saradomin's decision. She is now an enemy to the gods, capable of leading efficient and effective assaults against any force including even such fearsome creatures as the icyene.
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01-Oct-2017 09:18:48 - Last edited on 01-Oct-2017 09:28:07 by Wolffi

Padomenes

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Wolffi said :
I will not try to make a point of the Naragi. It's likely that destruction would've been of the same scale or more if Saradomin had not been there in the first place. But I will touch the subject of Garlandia. You make a case represented in the game as well, that Saradomin indeed was rallying the icyene for war and that her wings were a mere casualty for the greater cause that he needed the icyene for. I'd like to acknowledge that at the point of this happening, which was indeed at New Domina, Saradomin was not in a hurry to rally the icyene. The measures he took were drastic and perhaps in his mind he rationalized it, but he could've as easily continued to speak to the icyene to let them understand the situation. Furthermore, Saradomin, a leader for the icyene, did nothing in his power to help Garlandia after he tore her wings. He straight out abandoned her to the mercy of powers to be. Saradomin, like with Sir Owen, has created another potentially dangerous enemy to his cause. Not only is Garlandia powerful and combat trained in her own right, she is privy to the ways of the icyene and she was a noble among her people, surely worth some respect from her peers regardless of Saradomin's decision. She is now an enemy to the gods, capable of leading efficient and effective assaults against any force including even such fearsome creatures as the icyene. The measures were based on a different culture, what was done to Garlandia was done because Icyenic culture and honours deemed it fitting in update. Why can't you look at and acknowledge, respect the difference in cultures instead of hating or being racist, bigoted to another because you think your own is superior according to whatever fascistic viewpoints you hold? It was not Saradomin's idea but he was trying to follow Icyene cultural customs because they saw it as appropriate in their own ways to punish her like this. They have their own customs, you have yours.

02-Oct-2017 09:50:56 - Last edited on 02-Oct-2017 09:58:51 by Padomenes

Padomenes

Padomenes

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William Witt said :
Raleirosen said :
Aeldari said :
I can not say I agree with your opinion, but it did catch me off guard and gave me a good laugh. Aha~, it isn't really my opinion; I actually think Saradomin is pretty cool. Just felt like bumping this thread with a facetious comment.

I think Saradomin is a pretty cool guy. Eh rips wigns and doesnt afraid of anything. The icyene cultural customs called for the 'rip wings from Garlandia' stuff because it was in their traditions. Humans have their own culture, and the Icyenes have theirs. Different cultures exist and diversity must be appreciated. Saradomin had to appreciate diversity of culture by acknowledging the Icyene customs and letting it be carried out their way. It was not his idea but the Icyenes'. All cultures are equal in that they all have cooperation and their own methods to do things which work best for themselves.

02-Oct-2017 10:00:10 - Last edited on 02-Oct-2017 10:03:00 by Padomenes

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