RuneScape Forum Archive | In Defense of Saradomin

Hguoh

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The World Window is fueled by Tuska's leaking lifeforce, and it has been stated that it will eventually run out of power (just not in our character's life/the time period we control our characters in). V acknowledges that it takes a lot of power just to move himself across long planar 'distances'. And, of course, Zaros had to use up most of Loarnab's life force to bring his legions to Gielinor.

It is canonically a costly process (unless you are dragonkin and/or a white dragon, who might simply be drawing the power to do so from the SoJ, are using portals made by the elder blade, are using the Daemonheim Rift/Schism, or are just hopping into a nearby portion of the Abyss). And saying, 'but Bandos did it,' is not a good argument. At the time of the God Wars, Bandos was a t3 god, while Saradomin was at best t4. And even when Bandos did it, he still ended up leaving enough forces behind on Yu'biusk to take his rage out on and goad into wars after being banished by Guthix. Besides that, we haven't actually heard much of Bandos's initial arrival to Gielinor and so really can't conclude that he simply mass portal-ed them in.

Heck, Zaros being able to portal in so much more of his forces from other worlds so quickly (in comparison to other gods) by sacrificing Loarnab is probably one of the big reasons he was able to establish such a large foothold on Gielinor even though he arrived after other gods had.

25-Oct-2017 21:50:44 - Last edited on 25-Oct-2017 22:09:02 by Hguoh

MystLunaris

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Hguoh said :
it isn't exactly something one can just experiment on freely (hence why Robert the Strong had to break in to reach it).

Unless of course, the person wanting to experiment on it is the God completely in control of the world it's on. In which case I assume it'd be pretty fricking easy to do.

Hguoh said :
MystLunaris said :
Plus if it's assumed that more gods than just Saradomin, Tuska and Skargaroth were present on Naragun then they must have also brought their armies there through other means.
And of course, Bandos is another example of a god that mass portals his armies with him.

Skargaroth traveled with no army (as we know at least one other god has, V). Tuska's 'armies' appear to take advantage of weakened dimensional barriers from her brute forcing her way to another plane (almost certainly at a great cost of power to her, which she recoups by consuming the anima of the plane she arrives at).

You missed the point of what I was talking about, I wasn't talking about Skargaroth or Tuska using portals to bring their armies as I know Skargaroth didn't have an army and Tuska brought her's through other means (although that does also bring the question of why Saradomin couldn't use those same means) but I was more saying that if it's assumed that more gods than just the named ones we know about were present on Naragun with their armies then they must've used portals to get them there.

Not satisfied with Bandos being able to do it?
I guess bringing up Guthix and Seren doing similar things wouldn't change your mind either.
Man, if only there was a time Saradomin had actually transported Icyene and many other races from different worlds to a specific world.
It'd be even better if the ironic part of that was that he actually did it to make them fight in a war, rather than just letting them live their own peaceful lives.
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25-Oct-2017 22:06:23 - Last edited on 25-Oct-2017 22:07:25 by MystLunaris

Hguoh

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MystLunaris said :
Unless of course, the person wanting to experiment on it is the God completely in control of the world it's on. In which case I assume it'd be pretty fricking easy to do.

The entire planet depends on one massive nuclear reactor made by a civilization long departed and all information about how it works has been lost with them. Even if you rule the world and can experiment on the power supply, you generally wouldn't do so as a screw up would destroy your civilization.

MystLunaris said :
You missed the point of what I was talking about, I wasn't talking about Skargaroth or Tuska using portals to bring their armies as I know Skargaroth didn't have an army and Tuska brought her's through other means (although that does also bring the question of why Saradomin couldn't use those same means) but I was more saying that if it's assumed that more gods than just the named ones we know about were present on Naragun with their armies then they must've used portals to get them there.

And I did make and edit to mention that other gods on Naragun would have either have to similarly invest power into transporting their armies or travel with none. And as I mentioned, Tuska recuperated the used power by devouring the Anima of the plane she arrived on which would be a disaster if Saradomin did it.

MystLunaris said :
I guess bringing up Guthix and Seren doing similar things wouldn't change your mind either.

Guthix used the elder blade, one of the few means by which one can generate permanent, otherwise costless portals (which I already mentioned). Seren brought the elves to Gielinor at Guthix's invitation. Given Guthix invited her, she likely used one such Elder Blade portal (likely the one Guthix would later turn into the World Gate). And even if neither one used the Elder Blade (they did), they were both t2, well above were Saradomin and Bandos were.

25-Oct-2017 22:19:19 - Last edited on 25-Oct-2017 22:25:34 by Hguoh

Hguoh

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MystLunaris said :
Man, if only there was a time Saradomin had actually transported Icyene and many other races from different worlds to a specific world.
It'd be even better if the ironic part of that was that he actually did it to make them fight in a war, rather than just letting them live their own peaceful lives.
Hmm...

And yet we don't know how many Icyene Saradomin brought to Gielinor. Given that they appear to have been largely contained to Hallowvale and breed slower than humans, I doubt he brought all that many.

25-Oct-2017 22:23:16

Ancient Drew

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Hguoh said :
MystLunaris said :
Man, if only there was a time Saradomin had actually transported Icyene and many other races from different worlds to a specific world.
It'd be even better if the ironic part of that was that he actually did it to make them fight in a war, rather than just letting them live their own peaceful lives.
Hmm...

And yet we don't know how many Icyene Saradomin brought to Gielinor. Given that they appear to have been largely contained to Hallowvale and breed slower than humans, I doubt he brought all that many. Could the Blood Altar have been used? Lowerniel Drakan used it to try and bring people over to Vampyrium, and since the mechanisms were likely already there before Drakan took over, the Icyene may have used that to travel to and from New Domina. Prepare for hell on RuneScape in Naval Cataclysm!

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25-Oct-2017 22:28:54

MystLunaris

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Hguoh said :
Guthix used the elder blade, one of the few means by which one can generate permanent, otherwise costless portals (which I already mentioned). Seren brought the elves to Gielinor at Guthix's invitation. Given Guthix invited her, she likely used one such Elder Blade portal (likely the one Guthix would later turn into the World Gate). And even if neither one used the Elder Blade (they did), they were both t2, well above were Saradomin and Bandos were.

I'd assumed that by that point Guthix had already broken The Blade.
The wiki does say "It currently lies broken on a table in the entryway to Guthix' chamber complex, though apparently Guthix, using the Stone of Jas, moulded many of the blade's fragments to create portals leading into Gielinor."
Although there's no citation for that so I am sceptical.
It also seems that The Blade was broken when Guthix was still out roaming and exploring, however upon finding Gilenor Guthix mostly stopped doing that.
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25-Oct-2017 22:43:53

Hguoh

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Ancient Drew said :
Could the Blood Altar have been used? Lowerniel Drakan used it to try and bring people over to Vampyrium, and since the mechanisms were likely already there before Drakan took over, the Icyene may have used that to travel to and from New Domina.

First, Drakan did not use the blood altar to bridge to Vampyrium. He used a portal that ran on ample stores of blood to do so (which was why he was going to sacrifice as many humans in Morytania as he could).

Second, the Blood Altar did not exist until V and/or the Moon Clan built the altar (likely V and his followers at some point during the 2nd age (it would have been difficult to build it once the God Wars began or after it fell to Vampyric control). What would have existed there was the Blood Rift, which, if Seren's study of the Death Rift was any indication, wouldn't have been very useful.

Third, we don't know when Saradomin eventually founded and built up Hallowvale. Supposedly, he originally arrived on Gielinor on Entrana. Given he had abandoned humanity in his travel of the planes prior to this and had joined with the Icyene, this would likely be where his first Icyene forces were brought over. Given that Saradominist influence didn't yet extend as far north as Flamtaer (where Mort'ton is now) when Torva was a boy and only extended to that point near the end of the 2nd age (at the time of Zamrorak's coup) while Torva (a human) was still alive, it seems very likely that Hallowvale was one of Saradomin's latest 2nd age developments and so wouldn't have had access to the blood rift/altar until fairly late into the 2nd age (and promptly lost it to Drakan).

So even if the blood altar could have been used to fuel interplanar teleportation (which there is no indication that it could), he didn't have it for all that long.

25-Oct-2017 22:53:39

MystLunaris

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Ancient Drew said :
Could the Blood Altar have been used? Lowerniel Drakan used it to try and bring people over to Vampyrium, and since the mechanisms were likely already there before Drakan took over, the Icyene may have used that to travel to and from New Domina.

(Assuming you're talking about the Blood portal and not actually the Blood Altar)
From what I remember of that quest it's actually heavily implied that most of the workings of the portal were made by Drakan himself, although somehow still based off another design.
If the Icyene did actually know how to use blood magic to that kind of extent though, that'd then bring up my question of why Saradomin didn't just make a River Salve style barrier for the Icyene on their homeworld as a more peaceful approach to the problem.
At the same time if the portal Drakan made was based off some portal design that the Icyene already made that would then support my idea that creating a portal between worlds that can transport multiple people really isn't that difficult, and considering the design of the Blood portal it could mean that Saradomin did actually research the Schism to find a more efficient way of making portals.

Although really I think the whole thing is likely just Vampyric in design.
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25-Oct-2017 22:54:53 - Last edited on 25-Oct-2017 22:56:34 by MystLunaris

Jan

2021

AesirWarrior

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MystLunaris said :
Hguoh said :
Guthix used the elder blade, one of the few means by which one can generate permanent, otherwise costless portals (which I already mentioned). Seren brought the elves to Gielinor at Guthix's invitation. Given Guthix invited her, she likely used one such Elder Blade portal (likely the one Guthix would later turn into the World Gate). And even if neither one used the Elder Blade (they did), they were both t2, well above were Saradomin and Bandos were.

I'd assumed that by that point Guthix had already broken The Blade.
The wiki does say "It currently lies broken on a table in the entryway to Guthix' chamber complex, though apparently Guthix, using the Stone of Jas, moulded many of the blade's fragments to create portals leading into Gielinor."
Although there's no citation for that so I am sceptical.
It also seems that The Blade was broken when Guthix was still out roaming and exploring, however upon finding Gilenor Guthix mostly stopped doing that.
So, I'm not really sure about that, probably something to ask the Mods about.

It'd take a lot of mental gymnastics to figure out a way the blade could have been broken before he reached Gielinor. Remember, piercing the void and breaking the blade was what gave the pests the opportunity to reach our plane.

As for Guthix using fragments to create the world gates, that's from the World Gate echo from the Guthixian memorial. http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/World_Gate_(echo) -

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25-Oct-2017 22:57:15

Hguoh

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MystLunaris said :
I'd assumed that by that point Guthix had already broken The Blade.
...
It also seems that The Blade was broken when Guthix was still out roaming and exploring, however upon finding Gilenor Guthix mostly stopped doing that.
So, I'm not really sure about that, probably something to ask the Mods about.

Even if we assume that the Blade was broken by the point he invited Seren, we know that he had visited Seren prior to finding Gielinor from the Priff memoriam crystals while the Blade would have still been whole. And we do know that the Blade was whole by the time he found Gielinor since that's he broke it on Gielinor and created the rifts the pests flood onto Gielinor from.

We also know that an Elder Blade portal existed on Tarddiad since one of Guthix's patch jobs of portals made by the Elder Blade (the World Gate) exists on Tarddiad (this is from one of the engrams from the Memorial to Guthix).

25-Oct-2017 22:58:41 - Last edited on 25-Oct-2017 23:01:13 by Hguoh

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In Defense of Saradomin