RuneScape Forum Archive | In Defense of Saradomin

MystLunaris

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I find it odd that portals were brought up as an option to save the Naragi but not also to save the Icyene.
Saradomin could've pretty easily taken a peaceful option and transported the Icyene to a different planet or teleported reinforcements into their planet.

I also find it hard to believe that Saradomin couldn't of made either an actual magical forcefield or something like the River Salve to save the Naragi or the Icyene.
I do know that he didn't actually help create the River Salve until years later so it wouldn't of been that obvious of a solution but as he's supposed to be the "God of Wisdom" it'd be pretty dumb for him not even to think about it.

Even if it wasn't exactly Hguoh's point I think it's still a good point to question if you should do something barabaric becuase it's part of a culture.
Also if Saradomin really regretted ripping Garlandia's wings off as he was doing it, then wouldn't he still at least try to help her survive rather than just kicking her out and leaving her to fend for herself in the cold.

Saint Jexel you say that Saradomin doesn't intentionally kill anyone, especially just for not following him, yet you completely forgot about the first Gilenorian god wars ~~like a good little Saradominist~~ where it's stated that he teamed up with Zamorak to destroy the Zarosians and their culture. Although yes Zaros' main allies were imprisoned rather than killed and some people converted to Saradominism and Zamorakianism. And it could even be argued that some battles were started by the Zarosians, although I find that hard to believe, especially any intitially against Saradomin.
Senntisten was said to be a purely defensive battle on the side of the Zarosians and they were under attack by both Saradomin and Zamorak.
If Saradomin was truely a "God of good" wouldn't he protect the Zarosians from the Zamorakian forces rather than teaming up with them to destroy the Zarosians? 99-120 Skill content , Skilling boss ideas , Talents , God Emissary D&D/Minigame , Vampyric and Elven tech trees

25-Oct-2017 14:29:53 - Last edited on 27-Oct-2017 16:04:23 by MystLunaris

MystLunaris

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Your argument about Saradomin not being arrogant is also flawed.
By your logic he can't be arrogamt because he's lived for a long time and had a lot of experiences and time to think about things.
However he still thinks he's better than Zaros, Seren and the Elder Gods who have all been around longer than him.

He is arrogant.
Just deal with it.

I personally don't see arrogance too much as a flaw but failure to aknowledge it and the other flaws it produces is.
And Saradomin hugely fails on that front. 99-120 Skill content , Skilling boss ideas , Talents , God Emissary D&D/Minigame , Vampyric and Elven tech trees

25-Oct-2017 14:58:40

Hguoh

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MystLunaris said :
I find it odd that portals were brought up as an option to save the Naragi but not also to save the Icyene.
Saradomin could've pretty easily taken a peaceful option and transported the Icyene to a different planet or teleported reinforcements into his planet.

I don't think portals would be a feasible solution in either case. They cost a lot of magical power to open and keep open unless you are using the Elder Blade or portals opened by the elder blade, especially when it comes to moving large groups of beings.

MystLunaris said :
I also find it hard to believe that Saradomin couldn't of made either an actual magical forcefield or something like the River Salve to save the Naragi or the Icyene.
I do know that he didn't actually help create the River Salve until years later so it wouldn't of been that obvious of a solution but as he's supposed to be the "God of Wisdom" it'd be pretty dumb for him not even to think about it.

Note what the Salve Barrier actually was: sacrificial blood magic. It required ample amounts of death on its own to be forged (albeit less than the full extermination seen on the Icyene homeworld) and regular upkeep to maintain its strength. That being said, consider where Saradomin would have obtained the information for a blood magic ritual. Certainly not from the humans and Icyene of the higher planes that never interacted with the ancient element.

Most likely, the ritual was based on information recovered from the fallen Zarosian Empire. This would mean Saradomin couldn't have been able to produce such a ritual on either Naragun or the Icyene homeworld at the time of his involvement in the conflicts you bring up.

25-Oct-2017 15:30:06

MystLunaris

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Hguoh said :
I don't think portals would be a feasible solution in either case. They cost a lot of magical power to open and keep open unless you are using the Elder Blade or portals opened by the elder blade, especially when it comes to moving large groups of beings.

As already said earlier in this thread, Icthlarin moved 500 Mahjarrat through a portal at Freneskae to Gilenor, which is one hell of a long distance.
On Saradomin's wiki page it's also said that Saradomin introduced humans to various other worlds, showing that creating portals and moving other being through them to other planets is not beyond his power.

Hguoh said :
Note what the Salve Barrier actually was: sacrificial blood magic. It required ample amounts of death on its own to be forged (albeit less than the full extermination seen on the Icyene homeworld) and regular upkeep to maintain its strength. That being said, consider where Saradomin would have obtained the information for a blood magic ritual. Certainly not from the humans and Icyene of the higher planes that never interacted with the ancient element.

Most likely, the ritual was based on information recovered from the fallen Zarosian Empire. This would mean Saradomin couldn't have been able to produce such a ritual on either Naragun or the Icyene homeworld at the time of his involvement in the conflicts you bring up.

Admittedly I haven't done River of Blood yet, but looking over the wiki pages I did manage to find what you were talking about.
But yes, since it does require blood magic I can see why Saradomin wouldn't have known about it.
However, I still think it's likely that there are many other ways he could've made a barrier. 99-120 Skill content , Skilling boss ideas , Talents , God Emissary D&D/Minigame , Vampyric and Elven tech trees

25-Oct-2017 16:20:21

Hguoh

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MystLunaris said :
As already said earlier in this thread, Icthlarin moved 500 Mahjarrat through a portal at Freneskae to Gilenor, which is one hell of a long distance.
On Saradomin's wiki page it's also said that Saradomin introduced humans to various other worlds, showing that creating portals and moving other being through them to other planets is not beyond his power.

500 beings is significant, but that's still presumably far less than the population of Icyene or Naragi (at least at the time Saradomin left).

Saradomin spread humanity throughout the planes via the Schism, one of the few ways to travel the planes with a low or absent energy cost (albeit with a random destination plane). Without the Schism (or knowing where its equivalent is on another plane (ex: the Daemonheim Rift), Saradomin has no more capability to transport beings across the planes than any other god.

MystLunaris said :
Admittedly I haven't done River of Blood yet, but looking over the wiki pages I did manage to find what you were talking about.
But yes, since it does require blood magic I can see why Saradomin wouldn't have known about it.
However, I still think it's likely that there are many other ways he could've made a barrier.

And what evidence do you have for that hypothesis? Heck, the only time we've seen god created barriers is with Guthix, Seren, and Tuska's anti-god barriers formed from anima.

25-Oct-2017 16:58:19

MystLunaris

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Hguoh said :
Saradomin spread humanity throughout the planes via the Schism

My response:
Hguoh said :
And what evidence do you have for that hypothesis?

Seriously though although we don't actually know the full nature of how the Schism works, due to it's random nature I doubt it'd really be used as a tool for colonization, for all anyone knows it could send people to a different planet every second making it near impossible to get enough people on the same planet to start a colony.
Still, with his access to the Schism and the ability to research it, it'd actually seem more likely that Saradomin would actually have a better knowledge of portals and how they work than most other gods.
Plus if it's assumed that more gods than just Saradomin, Tuska and Skargaroth were present on Naragun then they must have also brought their armies there through other means.
And of course, Bandos is another example of a god that mass portals his armies with him.
It's been shown more times than it hasn't that portalling a large amount of people across worlds doesn't actually take that much energy.
Personally, I put Zaros' attempt down to inexperience or maybe even an embellishment of the actual events Duke Nemesis probably didn't know much about using divine power, it could be that while also using some of Loarnab's energy to create a portal for his armies, Zaros actually mostly just absorbed the rest or put it to some other use.

Also if Saradomin could've saved 500 Naragi or Icyene, even though that's still less than the population of those worlds, it's still more than the amount of Zarosians Saradomin and Zamorak left alive on Gilenor.
And the Zarosians are still doing surprisingly well, considering how few of them are left.
I'm sure the Icyene and Naragi could've done well too.
The Dorgeshuun also do pretty well, for how few they are. 99-120 Skill content , Skilling boss ideas , Talents , God Emissary D&D/Minigame , Vampyric and Elven tech trees

25-Oct-2017 17:37:31 - Last edited on 25-Oct-2017 19:23:08 by MystLunaris

MystLunaris

Posts: 299 Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Hguoh said :
MystLunaris said :
Admittedly I haven't done River of Blood yet, but looking over the wiki pages I did manage to find what you were talking about.
But yes, since it does require blood magic I can see why Saradomin wouldn't have known about it.
However, I still think it's likely that there are many other ways he could've made a barrier.

And what evidence do you have for that hypothesis? Heck, the only time we've seen god created barriers is with Guthix, Seren, and Tuska's anti-god barriers formed from anima.

Ok sure, with what you pointed out and thinking about it a bit more I do admit that creating a barrier may be more difficult than I thought. 99-120 Skill content , Skilling boss ideas , Talents , God Emissary D&D/Minigame , Vampyric and Elven tech trees

25-Oct-2017 17:39:06 - Last edited on 25-Oct-2017 17:44:26 by MystLunaris

MystLunaris

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I personally don't find it unreasonable to say that both Tuska and Skargaroth managed to get to Naragun on their own, however if you do then want to say that multiple other gods ended up on Naragun and caused the destruction of the planet, then I think the blame would fall to Saradomin.
Naragun isn't a planet like Gilenor where there are a multitude of different reasons that multiple different gods would end up there.
The only reasons any of them would end up there is either just by chance or because some dumbass left their crown sending out a beacon to any other gods with a Elder Artifact.
And the more and more gods start showing up there the less likely it is to just be chance. 99-120 Skill content , Skilling boss ideas , Talents , God Emissary D&D/Minigame , Vampyric and Elven tech trees

25-Oct-2017 18:00:44

MystLunaris

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Saint Jexel, your points about The Death of Chivalry are also pretty flawed.
Saradomin was about as much friends with Sir Owen as you were as the player, so any appeals you make about his actions based on "friendship" are completely pointless.
Also it seems pretty obvious that Saradomin's motives for keeping Sir Owen alive were much more selfish than selfless.
If he actually felt that you were getting in the way of saving Sir Owen's life, wouldn't his line be something more like "NO! I must let Sir Owen live, this is not up for debate World Guardian!"
Rather than the lines we got:
Player: I've made my decision.
Player: No. You cannot have the wand.
Saradomin: You dare defy a god?
Saradomin: I shall not be denied!
Or
Player: I've made my decision.
Player: I will destroy the wand.
Saradomin: No!
Are you sure you want to destroy this object?
Yes.
Saradomin: You have defied me for the last time, World Guardian.

I don't see any kind of concern about Sir Owen's life in those lines, Saradomin is just talking only about himself and being butthurt because the player won't do what he wants. 99-120 Skill content , Skilling boss ideas , Talents , God Emissary D&D/Minigame , Vampyric and Elven tech trees

25-Oct-2017 18:24:20 - Last edited on 25-Oct-2017 20:01:43 by MystLunaris

Hguoh

Posts: 7,581 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

MystLunaris said :
Hguoh said :
Saradomin spread humanity throughout the planes via the Schism

My response:
Hguoh said :
And what evidence do you have for that hypothesis?

I remember it being in a Q&A, but I can't seem to find it, so perhaps my memory was mistaken. MystLunaris said :
Still, with his access to the Schism and the ability to research it, it'd actually seem more likely that Saradomin would actually have a better knowledge of portals and how they work than most other gods.

Unless, of course, the effect cannot be replicated by a being of his power or the studies don't yield any consistent data. It's also worth pointing out that the Schism powers all magic on Teragard, so it isn't exactly something one can just experiment on freely (hence why Robert the Strong had to break in to reach it).

MystLunaris said :
Plus if it's assumed that more gods than just Saradomin, Tuska and Skargaroth were present on Naragun then they must have also brought their armies there through other means.
And of course, Bandos is another example of a god that mass portals his armies with him.

Skargaroth traveled with no army (as we know at least one other god has, V). Tuska's 'armies' appear to take advantage of weakened dimensional barriers from her brute forcing her way to another plane (almost certainly at a great cost of power to her, which she recoups by consuming the anima of the plane she arrives at). Presumably, any other god reaching Naragun would either have to invest energy to bring their armies with them, have their armies invest energy into following them, or have traveled alone.

25-Oct-2017 21:42:07 - Last edited on 25-Oct-2017 21:56:40 by Hguoh

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In Defense of Saradomin