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History of the Kinshra - Edits

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Jakir

Jakir

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@Kitty no the followers we interact with in quests are a select few many hidden behind numerous other quests to get to their identities and almost all at some point mention not caring about Zamorakianism and only being out for themselves.

While that type of quest bad guy might have the most interaction with the player the average citizen of Gielinor (In Varrock, Falador, Lumbridge, and perhaps Ardy at least) would recognize the Kinshra as the most prevalent followers.

And I feel it is very important to portray Zamorakianism accurately because otherwise the 6th age becomes even more out of place and goof'd up. When almost good guy Zamorak comes out of nowhere it feels like a massive retcon of everything we have been led to believe so naturally the player will resist it (as 99.9% of the community are ocd change-a-phobes/handicapped) and a bias is created which hurts the faction.

It is extremely important that the actual methods of a God are obvious and at the vanguard and not a mere footnote.

06-Apr-2015 04:33:44

Hazeel

Hazeel

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William Witt said :
Could you elaborate on this, Hazeel?

This passage comes to mind.

William Witt said :
I was naïve when I came here, naïve and idealistic. I imagined the stories I heard were but exaggerations, that here I would find comrades-in-arms who shared my faith. I was so very, very wrong.

My one friend here has already deserted in disgust at the clash between the Kinshra's methods and his ideals, and you cannot know how tempted I am to follow his path. I have seen and learned much in my short time here...

It just doesn't sound professional, more whiny and childish. The fact that the Kinshra this as a "professional document" is even more appalling. It's a random insignificant recruit whining about how much they suck. Why are they keeping this?

William Witt said :
Lord Shadwell is identical in all ways to his father... In thought, and in deed, and in so much more besides. The only hope for change... is from within. I must remain here. I must set an example for these men.

I only pray that in trying to save their souls, I am not forfeiting my own.

Zamorak help us all.

- R

And honestly this just doesn't make any sense. If it were about "bringing the Kinshra back to its former glory" I could understand it, but seeing how this story depicts the Kinshra as scum from beginning to end. Why even join? This is like if I joined the *** or something to try and make it better. Why not start a new Zamorakian group that actually follows his philosophy? Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

06-Apr-2015 06:21:42

Wahisietel
Oct Member 2005

Wahisietel

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@Wolfie It's already canon that the early Kinshra were not true Zamorakians, it's explicitly stated that the ways of Captain Dulcin (misogyny, keeping slaves, torture, ect) are the ways of his ancestors, the founders of the Kinshra. We can't just ignore that because it paints the early Kinshra in a negative light; it's already canon. The updated version sticks to canon while doing as much as it can to paint the current Kinshra under Lord Daquarius as positively as it can, and I think it does that well.

And it is definitely better for the book to be mainly flesh. The current version ingame is simply pretty boring and uninteresting, it just provides facts mostly irrelevant to the quest. Kitty's proposed updated version is actually INTERESTING to read; all the most important facts are still there, but people doing the quest may actually enjoy reading it instead of dismissing it as a textwall and ignoring it. It also provides some nice foreshadowing. You never were our brightest star, Khazard. 'Vermin slaughtered like lambs'? What does that even mean?

06-Apr-2015 16:55:08

William Witt
Aug Member 2023

William Witt

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Thanks, Wahi. Wolfie, I'll get back to you (again), as I have an immediate response in mind for Hazeel but there's more of a "differing opinion" thing with you. Speaking of - I nearly forgot the smoother flow thing. Is that something separate from this? If so, that can be done even if we disagree on this. (Edit: Okay, given some thought now to the explanation in that post of yours and how the flow can be improved in accordance with that - Stay tuned!)


@ Hazeel

This version isn't meant to be a published history book - It's something "R" wrote by hand. It being in a dusty hidden compartment (like I mentioned) was actually intended to explain why it hadn't been destroyed. However, I certainly didn't intend it to come across as whiny and childish... Do you have any suggestions for improving that?


As for your other thing - He initially joined because he thought what he heard about the Kinshra was just exaggerations. He was wrong.
The Asgarnian ale must flow.

06-Apr-2015 19:09:59 - Last edited on 06-Apr-2015 19:51:31 by William Witt

Jakir

Jakir

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I've said why I don't like it and why it doesn't fit. If you disagree with that so be it but now it is down to opinion and in my opinion you are wrong and destroying any possible redemption for the Kinshra and biasing people against the faction.

07-Apr-2015 21:39:46

Wahisietel
Oct Member 2005

Wahisietel

Posts: 3,426 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Jakir said :
I've said why I don't like it and why it doesn't fit. If you disagree with that so be it but now it is down to opinion and in my opinion you are wrong and destroying any possible redemption for the Kinshra and biasing people against the faction.

Well if you refuse to say any more than that then there's not really much to discuss.

I really don't see how it would destroy any possible redemption for the Kinshra though, things have come a long way from when the journal was written, especially in regard to leadership. You never were our brightest star, Khazard. 'Vermin slaughtered like lambs'? What does that even mean?

09-Apr-2015 21:35:13 - Last edited on 09-Apr-2015 21:35:32 by Wahisietel

Jakir

Jakir

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Wahisietel said :
Jakir said :
I've said why I don't like it and why it doesn't fit. If you disagree with that so be it but now it is down to opinion and in my opinion you are wrong and destroying any possible redemption for the Kinshra and biasing people against the faction.

Well if you refuse to say any more than that then there's not really much to discuss.

I really don't see how it would destroy any possible redemption for the Kinshra though, things have come a long way from when the journal was written, especially in regard to leadership.

Because as stated earlier when everyone does things the wrong way it becomes the right way. Take the upside down cross used in heavy metal/satanism/ect which has taken on a meaning of being unholy. Originally it was a symbol of reverence and people would request to be crucified upside down because they didn't feel worthy to die in the same way they believed Jesus did. The meaning is now so commonly misinterpreted that anyone using it the correct way would be considered using it incorrectly.

That is the situation we face when we bastardize the origins of the Kinshra to be all evil scumbags. ALL Zamorakians become evil scumbags as the Kinshra are the face of Zamorakianism to the public.

10-Apr-2015 07:13:10

Lord Drakan
Sep Member 2010

Lord Drakan

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Can't Valzin be changed to someone who acquired reverence and fame by stopping Lungrim and his followers or something? That way he isn't as evil, but would still have a darker side by semi-manipulating Raddallin. Bizarre Boron Fusswell, scryer extraordinaire. OSRS: POH ideas & RS3 minigames & achievement ideas !

Perhaps you're half right; perhaps we can't win. But we can fight.
— Zanik

10-Apr-2015 17:53:54

Rondstat

Rondstat

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It's a little disappointing seeing how many folks are more concerned with maintaining an arbitrary tally of points for and against each faction than judging this piece on its own merits.

This is good storytelling right here. Plain and simple. That should always be the primary criterion. Without a good story there IS no lore.

11-Apr-2015 23:24:33

Hazeel

Hazeel

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I just really don't see the merit in the storytelling. It has too many lorefails and plotholes, it makes little sense, and it begs the question of redemption to begin with. The original story has more gray and interesting characters while everyone is black and white here. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

12-Apr-2015 06:56:07

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