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History of the Kinshra - Edits

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Jakir

Jakir

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So what I've noticed as far as "hinted" lore would be:

1) "Valzin of the Golden Mask" - he was never called this in the books iirc nor was his lack of a past mentioned so perhaps this is setting up some reveal where he isn't who people think he is.

2) Not knowing what tongue "Kinshra" originates from could imply a connection with a more powerful, ancient, ally.

3) The possibility that The Kinshra and Lungrim intentionally manipulated the king, similar to how the White Knights may be doing today to get their territories lined up to form an ideal alliance.

4) The possible connection between Valzin and the tower burning. Assuming his identity is a false one could mean he is not Lungrim's agent but an invention of the White Knights to get the Kinshra expelled.

5) It is signed "R", could be "R" for Renna*d? That would be awesome.

Also reading this more closely I realize that while it is saying that the Kinshra were misguided they did not truly follow the way of Zamorak which would mean that modern day Kinshra knights under the leadership of Lord Daquarius Renna*d would be less evil for the sake of evil and actually decent supporters of Zamorak. As long as the distinction between what the Kinshra were, and what they have become is made clear then I feel this document is pretty awesome and a far better alternative than what we currently have.

(given when this was to be written, during Rennard's early days, it wouldn't be able to clearly show the Kinshra as having evolved to any point under his leadership so the showing the Kinshra in a positive light bit should come in future content, like the Siege. That might sound hard to do but the attack could be a result of the King's absence and that would surely add some grey to the White/Temple Knights and some color to the Kinshra)

12-Sep-2015 21:05:10

Hazeel

Hazeel

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Having the Kinshra as evil then and good now doesn't work. They're currently one of the biggest villain factions in the game. This could change during our history, but as of now they are the epitome of the "Evil Warped Zamorakianism".

Either you have them as good before and evil now or just evil for all time. Personally, I prefer the former. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

12-Sep-2015 22:31:51

Jakir

Jakir

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Hazeel said :
Having the Kinshra as evil then and good now doesn't work. They're currently one of the biggest villain factions in the game. This could change during our history, but as of now they are the epitome of the "Evil Warped Zamorakianism".

Either you have them as good before and evil now or just evil for all time. Personally, I prefer the former.

That isn't true at all though. Under the leadership of Lord Daquarius they are clearly going to become closer to true Zamorakianism and less like whatever the heck Captain Dulcin was doing. The more I look at the revised version the better it fits.

13-Sep-2015 04:57:10

William Witt
Aug Member 2023

William Witt

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Hi, Mod Stu. Thanks for your post, and I'm glad you like it.

The Kinshra are more redeemable in this version than you might think, though - Wolfie supports it now. Plus DaT doesn't actually say that the Kinshra were originally good - In fact, Daquarius says something about those of the Kinshra who "still" fight for evil, which might imply they used to fight for evil.

I also meant this version to fit in with the dark, spooky mystery aspect of the quest (which is one of my favorite aspects of the quest). There are a lot of clues in the document that Valzin isn't what he seems. As to *what* he is, I've got 2 ideas in mind (with enough clues in the document to support either). All I'll say is Valzin/Dulcin was a
bad influence
, and the Kinshra are probably going to be in a better place now that he's gone. He might just have been a bad influence on Lungrim, too...

Plus, like Wolfie figured out (and Wahisietel mentioned before) the writer actually is Daquarius Renna**. (The friend he mentioned is Ajjat.)

Even if it's too late for the siege event, maybe we can adjust this doc version after to account for whatever the siege event says?

If resources are an issue, I'm personally - I don't know about everyone else - willing to wait Birthright of the Dwarves PQD lengths of time to see this put in.
The Asgarnian ale must flow.

20-Sep-2015 00:05:59

Jakir

Jakir

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William Witt said :
If resources are an issue, I'm personally - I don't know about everyone else - willing to wait Birthright of the Dwarves PQD lengths of time to see this put in.

I certainly would rather have it fixed eventually than never get fixed at all.

20-Sep-2015 00:28:31

Hazeel

Hazeel

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@Wolfie

Except the Kinshra, including Daquarius has been the biggest villain group in the 5th age and are now only 2nd to the Elders.

@Ren Bo Dash

But it does go against the idea of some random insignificant priest suddenly convincing everyone, even other Zamorakians, that Zamorakianism is evil in a matter of months. It makes it clear that Saradomin started that idea through thousands of years of propaganda. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

20-Sep-2015 01:19:15 - Last edited on 20-Sep-2015 01:22:03 by Hazeel

Jakir

Jakir

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Hazeel said :
@Wolfie

Except the Kinshra, including Daquarius has been the biggest villain group in the 5th age and are now only 2nd to the Elders.

Not at all. They have worked with us, or at least myself several times now. In the void quests to stop Gray, in we1 to stop Saradomin, in doc they surely would have helped us stop Saradomin as well, in Wanted, and in Dat to oppose Sliske (sure they had their own self interest at heart but Sliske is clearly a worse choice to have the Catalyst).

So several times they have joined forces with us to oppose greater evil. Yes that may be in their own self interest but that is what Zamorak promises, not evil. Most likely this upcoming seige event will also be to attempt to free Falador from whatever manipulation the Temple Knights are working involving the sickly king as well.

Not noble actions but not evil by a longshot.

Boom. #truthbomb *drops mic* *walks away*

20-Sep-2015 21:42:04

Amserdrwys
Jun Member 2022

Amserdrwys

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The only problem I see now is we don't know what parts of the current in game document is being used for development right now, so if we wanted to add new stuff or remove others we don't know what else would be affected by it.

The revised document wrote here is a really good one for reasons that were already mentioned above, and it would be a shame if it couldn't be incorporated in the game somehow.

At the very least we can remember the style of writing for the future, as its point of view and hidden lore is very much what I like in Runescape's dialogue and lore texts.

21-Sep-2015 20:27:26

Hazeel

Hazeel

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The Kinshra have always been seen as evil. In BoL, we didn't assist the Kinshra. They assisted Zamorak because they had to, regardless of their interpretation. In the Void Knight series, they only helped because Grayzag got greedy and betrayed them. Hell, in that same series they were planning to destroy Falador with the goo. They also turned the Fisher Realm into ruin. They were also deeply devoted to Lucien, working with Surok Magis to help him. And in DoC, it was made specifically clear that the Kinshra (Daquarius included and specifically mentioned) wanted to destroy Falador.

With that said, I'm totally cool with the idea of the Kinshra being redeemed, maybe in a quest. But this new version gives no room to do so. Its gives them a foundation of evil, being built of the ideals of pointless destruction and cruelty. They are cited as much as Lungrim for spreading the lies of Zamorak's philosophy, so even if you can ignore the massive contradictory lorefail of this, it still basically makes them the embodiment of every aspect of the false Zamorakian ideology.

They're cited for having no morals at all and following a more Zarosian approach to elitism in that you are born with it, such as a noble or king, rather than working for it. The only decent thing they Kinshra have going for them in this version is that they were adequate soldiers. Even if they were unjustly accused for burning the tower, they were still complete evil. On that note, another issue I have is that this exile contradicts the common knowledge that the white knights pushed the Kinshra out of Falador. If I remember correctly, this was an issue with the old version as well, but at least there the white knights were involved with that exiling. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

21-Sep-2015 21:38:35

William Witt
Aug Member 2023

William Witt

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Hazeel said :
On that note, another issue I have is that this exile contradicts the common knowledge that the white knights pushed the Kinshra out of Falador. If I remember correctly, this was an issue with the old version as well, but at least there the white knights were involved with that exiling.

That actually has never been true - I think it's a result of confusion with the thing in the year 163, where the Knights of Falador (following the king's illness) tried to declare they were to no longer have political power in Asgarnia. In fact, prior to Betrayal at Falador, nothing in canon even suggested they weren't *always* at Ice Mountain.
The Asgarnian ale must flow.

21-Sep-2015 22:10:54

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