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History of the Kinshra - Edits

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Mod Stu

Mod Stu

Jagex Moderator Forum Profile Posts by user
William Witt said :
Hi, Mod Stu. Thanks for your post, and I'm glad you like it.

The Kinshra are more redeemable in this version than you might think, though - Wolfie supports it now. Plus DaT doesn't actually say that the Kinshra were originally good - In fact, Daquarius says something about those of the Kinshra who "still" fight for evil, which might imply they used to fight for evil.

I also meant this version to fit in with the dark, spooky mystery aspect of the quest (which is one of my favorite aspects of the quest). There are a lot of clues in the document that Valzin isn't what he seems. As to *what* he is, I've got 2 ideas in mind (with enough clues in the document to support either). All I'll say is Valzin/Dulcin was a
bad influence
, and the Kinshra are probably going to be in a better place now that he's gone. He might just have been a bad influence on Lungrim, too...

Plus, like Wolfie figured out (and Wahisietel mentioned before) the writer actually is Daquarius Renna**. (The friend he mentioned is Ajjat.)

Even if it's too late for the siege event, maybe we can adjust this doc version after to account for whatever the siege event says?

If resources are an issue, I'm personally - I don't know about everyone else - willing to wait Birthright of the Dwarves PQD lengths of time to see this put in.

I'm all for doing additional documents. I'm hoping to do more to flesh out the Kinshra in the future (release schedule and workload permitting).

My suggestion would be to wait for the Falador event and associated content, and see how that builds on the foundation of History of the Kinshra. Then you'll know what's canon and can review your new text accordingly.

22-Sep-2015 10:47:59

Jakir

Jakir

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Hazeel said :
Snip

Seen as evil by a biased audience ruled by the White/Temple Knights.

Of course they assisted Zammy, they're the Kinshra... what else would they do? And in doing so they opposed the greatest scum known to exist in the universe.

They helped in the void knight series because the entire planet was at risk. And to get even. And we don't know how aware the Kinshra were as to the extent of the destruction the goo would unleash. It is likely they intended to simply cause some destruction to weaken Falador.

Renegade Knights are not Kinshra.

Lucien claimed to be Zamorakian.

Once again destroying Falador does not necessarily mean killing everyone. It could simply mean the monarchy aka white knights in disguise.

The early history with heavy manipulation by the Temple Knights leaves the Kinshra ripe for freeing themselves of this master plan and coming to truly serve Zamorak as D-Rey is accomplishing.

I don't recall them ever stating only nobles were worthwhile or that you need to be born noble.

If the White Knights forced the King to decide to exile them or deal with whatever consequences they could offer than it would still be seen as them forcing the Kinshra out. Even more so if the White Knights enforced said exile.

25-Sep-2015 00:37:55

Hazeel

Hazeel

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They were betrayed in the void knight series and their plan got hijacked by Grayzag. They were planning to kill as many innocent civilians with the goo themselves until things went south. The whole thing with the goo was completely their plan. They knew it'd "poison" (for lack of a better word) and kill innocents.

They knew Lucien wanted to be a God. Hell, for all we know he wasn't going to betray Zamorak, but he was still a scumbag.

How on earth can you mistranslate "destroying Falador" to "liberating Falador"?

As for the part about nobles, I'm only referencing what was written in this version of the story, nothing that's in canon.

And again for the white knights, I'm only referring that they have nothing to do with the Kinshra's exile in this version. They didn't even force the king's hand. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

25-Sep-2015 01:17:05

Jakir

Jakir

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People talk about "destroying" nations all the time but generally they simply mean overthrowing the currently established government. And it is also possible that the people we got the information from meant destroy all of Falador but the people making the plan meant destroy Falador as in usurp the rulers and take it over. As we have seen many in the Kinshra are braindead kill kill chaos chaos kill kill types and do not understand that is not the intended mission statement of the Kinshra.

In this version of the story it heavily hints at a master plan that setup the Kinshra with several of their founding members not being on the level, as well as the actual boiling point of the matter which resulted in their exile being something we know they had no negative part in. Again to the astute reader this hints at the involvement of the White Knights in some manner.

25-Sep-2015 22:46:48 - Last edited on 25-Sep-2015 22:47:03 by Jakir

Hazeel

Hazeel

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Then what was with the whole "They're going to destroy all the innocent civilians!" "Even Zamorak wouldn't condone this!" "I'm disavowing them for this senseless destruction" about?

And hinted? It was outright stated that the king was paranoid because the Blue Order lied and said the Red Order burned the tower down. This is the same as the canon version, but the canon version, at least, includes the white knights getting upset over two drunk members and influencing the king's decision. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

25-Sep-2015 23:18:27

Jakir

Jakir

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We know what really happened from Rune Mysteries and Memories though. So if Doc and Rune M&M were reqs for a sequel quest it could pool the knowledge and we could make inferences from comparing the true history with the recorded history, notice the obvious discrepancies, and identify the White Knights (very easily) as the puppet masters.

When something is obviously known to be false and a lie is thrown in front of your face like that it counts as hinting. And people that are not oblivious pick up on hints.

27-Sep-2015 00:16:08

Wahisietel
Oct Member 2005

Wahisietel

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I've heard from Theodore about his plans for Valzin, and I like them. Certainly helps add to the atmosphere of the quest. You never were our brightest star, Khazard. 'Vermin slaughtered like lambs'? What does that even mean?

05-Nov-2015 20:26:45

Lego Miester
Nov Member 2023

Lego Miester

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Apparently Theobold is still adamant about this lore book being deliberately sabotaged with several tidbits that break existing canon. I'm currently reading it over myself to see whether I can notice them too.

edit: Purely off my in-game knowledge, minus the novels, I can say the ending was a bit confusing. It seems implied that the donations to the black knights from the king went straight to Valzin, and the knights were unaware of it, as well as not receiving the letter or the prized sword, leading them to think the king had completely forsaken them after the burning of the tower.

Most of that makes sense, but could've been clearer, except that I thought with the letter that the king died around the time he wrote it, not really leaving time to notice the black knight's getting revenge-plotty up in their castle. Unless it was noticing that which lead him to send the items, intent on setting things right with them? Either way it could be more clear. Headcanon Haven, where everything is made up and the points don't matter.
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22-Feb-2016 05:18:08 - Last edited on 22-Feb-2016 05:39:57 by Lego Miester

William Witt
Aug Member 2023

William Witt

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Lego Miester said :
Apparently Theobold is still adamant about this lore book being deliberately sabotaged with several tidbits that break existing canon. I'm currently reading it over myself to see whether I can notice them too.

edit: Purely off my in-game knowledge, minus the novels, I can say the ending was a bit confusing. It seems implied that the donations to the black knights from the king went straight to Valzin, and the knights were unaware of it, as well as not receiving the letter or the prized sword, leading them to think the king had completely forsaken them after the burning of the tower.

Most of that makes sense, but could've been clearer, except that I thought with the letter that the king died around the time he wrote it, not really leaving time to notice the black knight's getting revenge-plotty up in their castle. Unless it was noticing that which lead him to send the items, intent on setting things right with them? Either way it could be more clear.

I think you may have misunderstood; I wasn't suggesting the lore issues I mentioned were *deliberate*, merely that it was an unfortunate consequence of what Fswe did. I'm actually kind of regretting telling you about this in the first place; Pretty tired and stressed out atm as it is. We'll talk lighter stuff next time we meet.
The Asgarnian ale must flow.

22-Feb-2016 07:09:11 - Last edited on 22-Feb-2016 07:09:53 by William Witt

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