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History of the Kinshra - Edits

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Wahisietel
Oct Member 2005

Wahisietel

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Well, in the updated version of the book, which was made to be in line with what Lord Daquarius shares of his views in DAT, it's explained that the Kinshra was initially not really Zamorakian, but more recently people like "R" and Lord Daquarius have reformed the organisation, but people like Dulcin (who is descended from Shadwell and Valzin) cling onto the old ways.

Remember, from Dulcin's journal, we know that his ways are that of Shadwell, which would presumably also be those of Valzin. You never were our brightest star, Khazard. 'Vermin slaughtered like lambs'? What does that even mean?

16-Mar-2015 12:02:25

Hazeel

Hazeel

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Eh. I don't even know. Jagex seems to flip flop constantly with that. They keep using the modern Kinshra as an example of what Zamorakianism isn't and then try to say their leader is a true Zamorakian. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

16-Mar-2015 15:34:48

Lord Drakan
Sep Member 2010

Lord Drakan

Posts: 7,043 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Wahisietel said :
Well, in the updated version of the book, which was made to be in line with what Lord Daquarius shares of his views in DAT, it's explained that the Kinshra was initially not really Zamorakian, but more recently people like "R" and Lord Daquarius have reformed the organisation, but people like Dulcin (who is descended from Shadwell and Valzin) cling onto the old ways.

Remember, from Dulcin's journal, we know that his ways are that of Shadwell, which would presumably also be those of Valzin.
The previous version established Valzin not to be a crazy extremist like Shadwell, Sulla and Dulcin and the Kinshra to be a "normal" Zamorakian organisation, a bit like the Red Wizards at the time I suppose. DaT doesn't imply that the Kinshra was "evil" to start with at all. The only passage that could be relevant is

Original message details are unavailable.
There are still murmurs from those who cannot see the difference between chaos and evil. It is a problem that runs deep in the Black Knights. We have much work to do before the problem is solved, but we will emerge from this much stronger than before. From the chaos a new Kinshra will be born, more unified than the last. Just as Zamorak has taught us.

Running deep doesn't necessarily refer to their origins though. It is true that the Kinshra were less unified before Daquarius, but that makes sense. After the Siege of Falador, there will have been some dissent since Daquarius and Sulla are basically polar opposites, and there was also that internal Kinshra thing following Valzin's command that the order be disbanded that is relevant. You know, that thing... Bizarre Boron Fusswell, scryer extraordinaire. OSRS: POH ideas & RS3 minigames & achievement ideas !

Perhaps you're half right; perhaps we can't win. But we can fight.
— Zanik

16-Mar-2015 17:03:00

Chaos Lupus

Chaos Lupus

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Hazeel said :
Eh. I don't even know. Jagex seems to flip flop constantly with that. They keep using the modern Kinshra as an example of what Zamorakianism isn't and then try to say their leader is a true Zamorakian.

Daquarius has been attempting to reform the Kinshra ever since Sulla's downfall. There are obviously still extremists, but he's trying to present them with a better understanding of Zamorakianism and actively re-recruited many of those who had abandoned the Kinshra due to their extremism.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

16-Mar-2015 20:00:33

Ariel Arilon

Ariel Arilon

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Mod Stu and Readers,

I remember reading about horrific and inhuman things the Kinshra did.

Is this part of their history no longer canon?

Is this part of their history now being "white-washed"?

Are the Kinshra now just like the White Knights, only they wear black armour to distinguish themselves from the White Knights?

I'm confused.

So, are the Kinshra NOW no longer evil (but victims)?


tearing my hair out because NOTHING written or spoken in this game can be taken as truth (everyone has their own agenda),

-Ariel Why does a hand-thrown water balloon have TWICE the range of my best bow?!?

20-Mar-2015 00:31:44 - Last edited on 20-Mar-2015 00:40:16 by Ariel Arilon

Ariel Arilon

Ariel Arilon

Posts: 550 Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
...and why can't I bloody edit my post??

Oooops... I had "Images" disabled so the pages load faster!

= ^_^ =
*blushes* Why does a hand-thrown water balloon have TWICE the range of my best bow?!?

20-Mar-2015 00:35:15 - Last edited on 20-Mar-2015 00:39:30 by Ariel Arilon

Jakir

Jakir

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The Kinshra have done terrible things but most of them were recently and a result of poor leaders coming into power and not serving the initial philosophy of the Kinshra. Also Zamorakianism not simply being "kill kill chaos chaos" has been mentioned in game multiple times in the past. There is a Zamorakian mage in the chaos tunnels you may want to have a word with about it.

20-Mar-2015 01:14:02 - Last edited on 20-Mar-2015 01:14:18 by Jakir

William Witt
Aug Member 2023

William Witt

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Hey, guys! Sorry for the hiatus in posting - I had a couple reasons, most not very good (procrastination in replying to everything was a big one). Should get back on track, though. I'm going to break up the work of replying to previous posts (instead of trying to do it all at once, or in order).

I'll start with this (will get to you soon, Wolfie).

Hazeel said :
I think it needs a bit of cleaning up though. In a way it kinda sounds like a bitter RS clan member lamenting about his clan's history of drama and how he and his friend are disappointed by it. A little touching up to make it sound more professional would be nice.

Could you elaborate on this, Hazeel?
The Asgarnian ale must flow.

04-Apr-2015 10:21:19 - Last edited on 04-Apr-2015 10:21:37 by William Witt

William Witt
Aug Member 2023

William Witt

Posts: 12,465 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Jakir said :
Hazeel said :
I agree with Wolfie on the fact that it paints the Kinshra as scum from beginning to end. On the other hand, I'm not too bothered by that because it does give the opportunity to show the differences the Kinshra and true Zamorakianism.

That is my main problem with this. I would like for the Kinshra to represent "true Zamorakianism" because if the widest spread followers that do the most interacting with people do things wrong it becomes a "well then why the heck bother" situation because the right version would be the minority of followers which makes it not important (the right way becomes the wrong way if everyone does it a different way).

@Wah this is an opinion issue but I felt that the original version was a fleshed out bullet point and had a wealth of information that was very fleshed out. This version though is mostly flesh. As an analytical person I wouldn't mind a straight up timeline myself though so take my opinion as it is.

"the widest spread followers that do the most interacting with people" are our enemies in various quests, though, and undeniably depicted as evil. Stu's update to the Demon Slayer rework included clarifying that Denath's followers were "extremists" and that Denath "claimed" to follow Zamorak - I think it's a reasonable approach.

I don't think it makes it unimportant now that the god himself is back - What he says/teaches is the right way, no matter how many followers had other ideas while he was gone.
The Asgarnian ale must flow.

05-Apr-2015 14:02:28

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