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Proposal: remove FMR. Thread is locked

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2_Tron

2_Tron

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CM Nick said :
...

CM Nick said :
...

CM Nick thanks for your answer which eases me my stance about your situation, you at least having a personal interest/goal to work out matters for/with The RuneScape Community to help solve them.
I do know that Jagex/JMods didn't have placed themselves in the best situation possible but regardless to build for the future a better option wasn't available, at the moment they already have been doing a lot of work far passed the point of no return.

An overhaul underconstruction while systems are actively being used is what Jagex/JMods always have been doing in RuneScape & The RuneScape Official Forums but as years gone by it only becomes more intens/difficult ... but they still manage to proceed forward in good order.

I still actively do remember that 'back in the days with Mod Mark Hulmes' Jagex/JMods not have done it any different other than presenting it to the public.

The whole discussion about your position and any changes to the system were best said a 'hoax'. I don't know who started it but at some point it have been leading a seperate life not doing any good at all being a redundant discussion overshadowing the inner workings of The RuneScape Official Forums influencing players of The RuneScape Community.

Gladly you have pulled yourself out of all of that setting your personal goals and continue focussing at that which makes me happy.
The positions of your colleagues and them come and going, yeah that pretty much started to become a massive revolving procedure making it very difficult to see the benefit. It still feels a little awkward.

I am saddened that you haven't been given the opportunity to shed your light on The RuneScape Official Forums during daylight. I always see you perform your tasks in the evening or night, I do not know if you are bound to these hours or if you have freedom to go beyond that.

28-Oct-2021 10:29:32 - Last edited on 28-Oct-2021 10:31:39 by 2_Tron

2_Tron

2_Tron

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Corder said :
Yep, current CM team hasn't really engaged with RSOF for a year, some has no forum profile... I just imagine FMR (etc) will be awful for them if they have no prior interest in forums.
To my knowledge the current CM Team have always been engaging with The RuneScape Community but there are multiple ways of communication which all do come in a different order according to the situation at that moment.
Mod Kira have promissed quite some times to elaborate with several teams which has been done as promissed and changes have been made as far changes could be applied.

That players have personal goals different and out of sync with what is going on doesn't say Jagex/JMods aren't been doing nothing yet they haven't the possibility to do something about it according to that players point of view.

Many goals have to serve purpose for Jagex/JMods and The RuneScape Community in general, personal goals will stick because they are too personal not serving a greater good.

28-Oct-2021 10:41:17 - Last edited on 28-Oct-2021 10:42:40 by 2_Tron

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

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Mr Brushie said :
Dilbert2001 said :
Jagex doesn't have to designate a single Jmod to handle FMR. I remember there was a time Mods Lee and Poerkie adjudicated FMR together. Of course, they can add Mods AI, Jagexa or the likes as many social media are already employing.

The other way is Jagex doesn't have to assign any Jmods to FMR. They only need some Jmod(s) to read the comments and reply only when they think it is applicable to the message boxes of the users. This is how Reddit handles complaints of subreddit moderators. If the complainers don't receive any message from Reddit, it automatically means no action taken or actions taken but they don't need to know what have been done behind the scene.



So what exactly are you getting at, then? Last I looked, this isn't Reddit.


This isn't Reddit doesn't mean Jagex can't learn from moderation procedure of other FORUMS. Besides, using the Reddit-like email/message box for communication has also been proposed in this thread by somebody else before me. I really really don't see why you don't question them before if you have a problem with it.

28-Oct-2021 15:34:58

Nubby Nubnub

Nubby Nubnub

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Mrs Ana said :
Yea, you can put 2 and 2 together to see who reported you and what for/why, but you can't see the contents of the reports. This ought to be protected at all costs for privacy/anonymity concerns.
Just like the privacy and anonymity of regular users are protected on Forum Help? ;)

Any accusations of bias or even revenge-moderation could then be raised on the renewed FMR thread, which would be up and running in an efficient manner. Win-win.

28-Oct-2021 15:53:33 - Last edited on 28-Oct-2021 15:54:42 by Nubby Nubnub

Mrs Ana

Mrs Ana

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Dilbert2001 said :
Jagex doesn't have to designate a single Jmod to handle FMR. I remember there was a time Mods Lee and Poerkie adjudicated FMR together. Of course, they can add Mods AI, Jagexa or the likes as many social media are already employing.
Obviously, it's never one single J-Mod that's assigned to handle FMR. It's whomever forms part of the Community Management Team that may or may not deal with FMR. For example, Mod Hooli has been the Lead Community Manager since at least June, 2020 (See: HERE ) and he has never posted on FMR. Mod Miva has been a Senior Community Manager since June, 2021. Mod Miva hasn't been added to the Forums usergroup yet as you can't see their profile here. They also haven't reviewed FMR yet. As per Mod Kari's post here , this may all soon change.

For historical reference, when this version of FMR was active starting on January 4th, 2016 through May 21st, 2018, Forum Moderation Review , we had the following Jagex Moderators responding to reports there :) :

Mod Kalaya
Mod Neena
Mod Shauny
Mod Balance (Head of Community at that time)
Mod Matthe
Mod Cam
Mod Meadows
Mod Poerkie


Mod Balance even engaged in reviewing reports there, which was welcomed because his position entailed many projects and responsibilities, just like Mod Hooli's duties at the moment. As evidenced above, it's clear that it's never one J-Mod assigned to review FMR. It's whomever forms part of Community Management that may or may not deal with concerns there. In the case of Mod Kari, she was the only one that formed part of the Forums community and was tasked with reviewing FMR and the Forum Mods. Since she has now departed, this task has been handed down to both Mod Hooli and Mod Miva.

28-Oct-2021 16:27:49

2_Tron

2_Tron

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Nubby Nubnub said :
Mrs Ana said :
Yea, you can put 2 and 2 together to see who reported you and what for/why, but you can't see the contents of the reports. This ought to be protected at all costs for privacy/anonymity concerns.
Just like the privacy and anonymity of regular users are protected on Forum Help? ;)

Any accusations of bias or even revenge-moderation could then be raised on the renewed FMR thread, which would be up and running in an efficient manner. Win-win.
Forum Help is there for transparency/openess where Forum Moderation Review is there for more difficult cases, making posts hidden is to prevent issues from returning in circular continuous movements of issues, where issues sustain being hard to solve or to end.

28-Oct-2021 16:30:54

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,168 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
@Mrs Ana

I really doubt if Jagex just designate one specific Jmod to do whatever task and turn everybody else away. They can have a curator for a project similar to what CM Nick said there are other CMs on the project like Brandon who is actually the leader and still get involved in the moderation process from time to time, but it doesn't mean that curator is the only one who will solely be responsible for that project.

28-Oct-2021 16:43:09

Mrs Ana

Mrs Ana

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Nubby Nubnub said :
Regular users are not reporting other users because those specific individuals have taken actions against their specific threads and/or posts. Regular users reporting others and those being reported are not tasked with the voluntary duties and responsibilities that Forum Moderators possess.

It's unfair to compare the two. If I report an user for offensive language, it fall's within the F-Mod's prerogative to deal with such reports, if they choose to, as outlined by the rules and guidelines set forth by Jagex themselves. If I report an F-Mod because I disagree with their actions, it's Jagex's prerogative to deal with such reports because F-Mods report to Jagex, more specifically, to the respective member of Community Management at that time.

If any accusations of bias do come up, it's just adding more unnecessary work for both the FMods and Jagex if this were the case. To avoid that, it's just best to leave FMods out of seeing the contents of reports that are questioning their behavior. Not everyone is capable of handling that in a professional manner.

When reporting to Forum Help, the regular user is not required to explain the situation. You are explicitly told within the first post to never make it personal. They are simply told to report the thread/post and then the F-Mods will deal with it. When reporting an FMod to FMR, the person in question is allowed to add an " Action you believe should be taken :", which, as you know, becomes personal as it's considered an opinion rather than a fact.

Forum Help is there to bring rule-breaking scenarios to an F-Mod's attention. Nothing personal is involved and if it's, it goes against the rules mentioned in the first post of that thread. FMR, on the other hand, may become personal because you are permitted to add your opinion on the case. So, for that sole reason, the contents shall remain anonymous and only visible to J-Mods to avoid bias and revenge.

28-Oct-2021 16:53:17

Mrs Ana

Mrs Ana

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@Dilbert2001:

I'm referring to the process of reviewing FMR throughout the years, as that's what the thread's topic is. There has never been just one J-Mod assigned to FMR since reviewing FMR, taking care of the Forums and Forum Mods, for that matter, it's already included in the duties and responsibilities of every member of Community Management (See: Head of CM - Q&A ). In Mod Kari's case, she was the only one assigned to such a role, but it didn't mean that Mod Hooli couldn't step in. As we know, we expect Mod Hooli and/or Mod Miva to fill in her shoes :) .

28-Oct-2021 17:09:32

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