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(F2P) QoL Improvements v2

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Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

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Starfire/fury and Warpriest are using defence levels in order to scale twice as a check for progression, it isn't an hard requirement. It could have been bound directly to combat level, but I guess it felt more cleanly with defence (as it is armour). The only cape with a direct defence requirement (bar max/comp) would be the reefwalker one (and you will have several stats at 90+ already at the point you'll lay your hands on it), otherwise it would be free game: Obtain the item and you can instantly use it, I do not really see a need to bend the rules for both kebbit and the brassican capes. Seeing the latter it surely could be something different coming from different content, but I thought the connection to the original event awarding cape overrides could be used to get that cape into game with low design effort.

The power bonus (or moreso the lack of) is the reason why the reefwalker cape practically is junk compared to the kiln capes. It is practically the same with the two f2p capes (warpriest would be t50 in terms of progression, so if it were to feature an adequate power bonus it would be the best ingame - but this shouldn't be done as long as free players do no have the ability to obtain them again)

For quest rewards: my most recent favourite certainly is the sunspear from river of blood - and I am more than looking forward to what the pirate finale may have to offer

Seeing the runic staves - certainly oversight, but I'd only buff the lesser variant from 30 to 35. The other two would work as main-tier items with additional effect Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

31-Jan-2018 20:15:34

schlesy

schlesy

Posts: 123 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
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Starfire/fury and Warpriest are using defence levels in order to scale twice as a check for progression, it isn't an hard requirement. Yet the warpriest cape couldn't be worn with less than 25 defence (or 20 for Ghost hunter backpack).
Also, the following capes have defence requirements(or other skills): Abomination cape(melee,75,power), Dragon Rider cape(Hybrid,70,prayer bonus), Lunar cape(Magic,40+60 magic,power), God capes(Magic,60 magic,power), Spirit cape(50 in defence,summon,dung), god cloaks(40 defence and prayer),Third-age druidic cloak(65 defence and prayer), and Ava Devices(Range,30 and 50 Ranged, power). True, mostly high levels, but not an empty list. And Spot capes.
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The power bonus (or moreso the lack of) is the reason why the reefwalker cape practically is junk compared to the kiln capes. It is practically the same with the two f2p capes (warpriest would be t50 in terms of progression, so if it were to feature an adequate power bonus it would be the best ingame - but this shouldn't be done as long as free players do no have the ability to obtain them again) Well, I believe it's more because this is practically the only cape which is degrading, making it very costly. It may be also that even then, the comp cape gives all it's best stats, without degrading. It may also be for the weak power bonus, I guess.
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For quest rewards: my most recent favourite certainly is the sunspear from river of blood - and I am more than looking forward to what the pirate finale may have to offer I could mention the Helm of neitiznot as well, which leads to my consideration: One of the best ways to insert the missing cape is as a quest reward. Perhaps a new reward from Dragon slayer, as Oziach might lose his quest rune platebody due to the M&S rework. Even though it feels to me his reward should be more of T50 power.

31-Jan-2018 21:44:53

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Yeah it certainly is a fair point for the capes and could go either way - but as simple non-content locked items I'd just prefer them without further requirements

Degradation for reefwalker is just another issue - albeit it isn't even that expensive (superior costs at most 600k for a full repair, normal is replaced with ~200k): But in terms of offence it is worse than a simple skill cape, and this never ever will be caught up by its defensive properties (it possibly may have been possible prior to its nerf (it had something around 200 armour and 400 hp), but certainly not today (as capes are horrible in terms of defence)). All in all it is a bad cape without degradation, adding that mechanic just entirely breaks it - maybe restoration of its original stats would be in order.

Sure quests always work to get some equipment ingame either, but it should be new content then, not retroactively adding further rewards (completing a certain piece of content shouldn't entitle players too often for future stuff - it is fine on an occassional level, but it shouldn't annul any chance of progression elements): The option to wear the best non-degrading piece of tank armour is a grandious reward for itself. And why shouldn't player have to work for a new best in slot item? Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

31-Jan-2018 22:21:15 - Last edited on 31-Jan-2018 22:39:37 by Rikornak

schlesy

schlesy

Posts: 123 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
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Sure quests always work to get some equipment ingame either, but it should be new content then, not retroactively adding further rewards (completing a certain piece of content shouldn't entitle players too often for future stuff - it is fine on an occassional level, but it shouldn't annul any chance of progression elements): The option to wear the best non-degrading piece of tank armour is a grandious reward for itself. And why shouldn't player have to work for a new best in slot item? Well, I'm refering to [this] discussion on twitter.
https://twitter.com/JagexJack/status/956171011656839168
Assuming I understood correctlly, They might be removing the current reward of Dragon slayer, so under that assumption, I do think a best in slot cape could be keeping it's reward relevant.

If they don't ruin the reward from the quest, I'd suggest it should be added in a new f2p quest. Perhaps a quest where Linza (before being wighted) would be met in a new smithing mission where she tries to create a Dragon shortsword, using some Orikalkum ore. The player would ask where she found it, to which she'll respond with "It was... given to me. To try creating a new sword". I fog the rest of progression, as I don't have it built, but this could make some nice content, alluding what sliske show's in kindred spirits about the real source of the metal. After the quest members would be able to purchase the dragon shortsword, and all be given a new tier 40 (or 45) cape which could be bought again from Linza, and after her "death" an NPC she trusted. Definitly out of Ninja scope, but whould give f2p a complete set of basic quests with each of the Signature Heros.

01-Feb-2018 05:03:12 - Last edited on 01-Feb-2018 07:57:33 by schlesy

schlesy

schlesy

Posts: 123 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
So, I looked up all items I could find which are useless in f2p, but they may gain them through gameplay(* denotes useless in p2p as well):
Barley
Hammerstone hops
Common kebbit fur*
Polar kebbit fur
Magic stock
Fur
Bear fur
Wine of Zamorak
Brunt food*
Empty oyster*
Empty wine bottle*
Cadava berries
Cadava potion*
Acne potion*
flier*
Al kharid flyer* (after quest)

I didn't include seeds, as they have a use, just one barely needs so many seeds. I also didn't include cosmetics, or items which are useless for a better variant exists.
Now, brunt food, as well as oysters, shouldn't be given any use, as they are failure items. Magic stocks, should return to be p2p, at least until a c'bow re-tiering is made.
The Furs have been discussed earlier, so I won't go over them again.
Which leaves us with the hops, cadavas, and Acne.

For hops the best solution in my feeling would be adding brewing to f2p, with addition of a 3rd fermenting vat at the Jolly Boar Inn. Other thing I could suggest is allowing the barley and Hammerstone to be grind at a windmill into different types of flour. Hammerstone flour would be used to create a new pie using redberries, to create the hammerstone pie, raising smithing level by 3. The flour may also be used for a mining potion, in a different aproach.

As for Barley itself, I don't think it has to create a different type of flour than the regular, but Perhaps it could be made for a shell for new pies I don't think of yet.

Cadavas, on their own, don't have any good idea of usage, other than lore (as still shown with maisa escape from Menaphos). Still, using it's deadly feeling, it could be given use if they will make it lower players levels by 2 for each use, giving players the possibility to freely lower their skills, should they want so.

The rest I don't see a way to touch them.

Your Opinion?

BTW, I fixed the link in the other post so it's now readable.

16-Feb-2018 13:47:12 - Last edited on 16-Feb-2018 13:49:04 by schlesy

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
A thanks a lot for the fixed link, I had read it back in day, but it somehow got under my radar again.

Seeing it in the context of the mining/smithing beta, I am actually quite mixed in my opinion now - The thing is: runite will finally lose its status as the ultra-prestigous armour it was back in the day when it was introduced, as even ironmen will be able to lay their hands on it on reasonable levels when not purchasing it in the shop (Since the existence of dragon items, the smithing requirements of runite were a bad joke - which became even worse in the course of the years when significantly better items had lower smithing requirements than the runite platebody - tetsu and malevolent alone in here). The mining/smithing rework may need quite a bit of polish seeing the current beta, but it will fix so much stuff that currently is wrong in the game. It shouldn't break other stuff though (or make it irrelevant)

With that new information I think some alternative reward for dragon slayer wouldn't be a bad idea (as it is a replacement, not an extra now)

As for the item list

- I wouldn't list magic stocks specifically, as I included them as the stock for the runite crossbow
- I would run Cadava berries/potions under quest items that can be obtained post-quest (even though the quest is gone now). I do not see it as such a bad thing, when some items just are for world building (like the al kharid flyer in f2p - or also the varrock newspaper). But if they were to make something out of it (like strips of cloth before menaphos and craftable wizard robes - strictly seen they were quest items as well) the best approach would be a low levelled poison (herblore 17 maybe)
- F2p brewing sounds like a good addition, but I guess it would be again a bit too big for a ninja scope. Working with different kinds of flours at lower levels would again add an unneeded layer at complexity, which would be better at higher levels. I like the idea of the hammerstone pie though Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

16-Feb-2018 14:40:24 - Last edited on 16-Feb-2018 14:58:58 by Rikornak

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 9,169 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
It could be made with adding the hops directly to the pie. I also would have it affect both smithing and mining, in order to not having it directly overriden by dwarven stouts after its release

Other items could also be somewhat difficult:

- The wine of zamorak is (except for the f2p spawn) only acquired with high levelled farming and cooking as a member - and only used in two high levelled potions. I couldn't really imagine some kind of f2p use without insanely affecting its value.
- The re-sell value of the empty wine bottle could be increased to 100 coins, otherwise I also do not really know what to do with it. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

16-Feb-2018 14:43:04 - Last edited on 16-Feb-2018 14:56:07 by Rikornak

schlesy

schlesy

Posts: 123 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Original message details are unavailable.
As for the item list

- F2p brewing sounds like a good addition, but I guess it would be again a bit too big for a ninja scope. Working with different kinds of flours at lower levels would again add an unneeded layer at complexity, which would be better at higher levels. I like the idea of the hammerstone pie though It could be made with adding the hops directly to the pie. I also would have it affect both smithing and mining, in order to not having it directly overriden by dwarven stouts after its release

- The re-sell value of the empty wine bottle could be increased to 100 coins, otherwise I also do not really know what to do with it. Actually, limitting the pie to only one of the skills is important, to not allowing it to overpower the stout in every way. I more prefer limitting it to a single skill, but I'm open on whichever of them it should be.
As for the complexity layer, who said it should be at a low level only? It would be a more complicated pie, aimed for the top f2p game, aimed for level 50 cooking(not lower than 40), a long lost imcando drawf recipe, and could be used as a substitute for redberry pies.
Members may include other new pies, like one made from Yanillian hops for Runcrafting levels. Think of it as a new layer of complexity to increase the entire pie cooking feeling more big.

As for the empty bottle of wine, I'd suggest allowing Fortunato to fill them for you from a jug of wine you'd supply, for a low price(100 coins), raising the usefullness of making jugs of wine.

As for poison, f2p can't be poisoned at all, so it's less useful in my opinion, but the possibility to lower your skills can be useful in situations, like a easier access to the free low-alch of the explorer ring, or so.

23-Feb-2018 09:31:17 - Last edited on 23-Feb-2018 11:05:29 by schlesy

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