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Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

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Blake Owlkin said :
Honestly, I think 2% is too low. It should be something like 10%, and certain very high value items should be tradable only through the ge i.e. anything currently costing max cash for a start.

Inflation in this game is way out of control, and we need a mandatory gold sink very badly

I mean while a lot of dudes and dudettes in here really freaked out due to not understanding how the economy works and how the proposed effect of the tax would be, 10 % is much - especially when you want to force players to use it then. 10 % is roughly what you pay for similiar services in other games, but even then those do not force you to use it (even though most just will out of convenience).

Under all those wild assumptions in that thread there are a few things, that should be kept in mind - there are other methods, that can be used to fight inflation. But most of those solutions just will cause other issues (there just is a reason why lots of new pieces of content drop cash and alchables like candy) - so that should be carefully reviewed. Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

04-Jan-2023 06:50:56 - Last edited on 04-Jan-2023 06:52:36 by Rikornak

Blake Owlkin
Apr Member 2013

Blake Owlkin

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10% might be a bit much. I admit that I was basing this on what I had seen in other games.

Take GW2 for example. Pretty much the only way to trade items between players is via the trading post. Additionally, much like Runescape you can trade the premium currency for gold. Unlike RS3 however, if I was to take a break for a few years due to real life concerns I would come back with almost exactly the same purchasing power as before I left.

The aspect of forcing people to use it is the entire point. We need a gold sink that cannot be circumvented. Any gold sink that is opt in does not serve its purpose. The exact level of tax can be deliberated on, but it has to be something we cannot dodge.

04-Jan-2023 15:35:34

Rikornak
Oct Member 2013

Rikornak

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My issue basically is the execution - three issues

- Suddenly introducing a 10 % fee vs. none at all - just read through this thread alone. There are so many posters going bonkers, because they're thinking they're going bankrupt over this. That's due to a 2 % fee, what would think would be going on if it was 10? I personally was heavily on the fence against this idea for a long time as well, but OS with a 1 % fee (and fees capped at 5 millions) has shown it isn't a change at all compared to status quo. A sudden 10 % fee is feelable.
- None of those other games force players to use their auction house (or whatever the system is called), you can do it and pay your convenience fee (I genuinely like this term from OS) and just be done with it - and if you think it costs too much, you'll just trade person-to-person.
- The system is not intended to fight inflation, it's intended to counteract the reduced (important word - enough players in here think dying is free) death costs from PvM. That might be worth to be re-evaluated (i.e. if the effect is bigger or smaller than intended) after some time.

But if we're to fight inflation we need to do other things. Adjust the value of salvage (that doesn't mean it needs to be lower all over the board, but it needs to be more gradual towards the adamant+ tiers). Introduce gold sinks (maybe not a literal one like in OS - https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Gold_sink), more prestige items, more nice things for the lower end of players, imagine something like the black market in WoW - ultra rare and/or discontinued items put into an auction with the cash removed from the game afterwards. There are so many things, that would be better... Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

04-Jan-2023 16:16:19 - Last edited on 04-Jan-2023 16:17:08 by Rikornak

Miles Prower
Nov Member 2006

Miles Prower

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Any gold sink is really just a sticking plaster. Add one now and another will be needed further down the road unless the core contributors to inflation are dealt with. I've lost count how much gold I've obtained through cash bags during the festive event. By official explanation, the GE Tax would not be required if death costs remained the same or alternative targeted methods were implemented. Low on bank space? Click here .

04-Jan-2023 17:11:31 - Last edited on 04-Jan-2023 17:13:33 by Miles Prower

Blake Owlkin
Apr Member 2013

Blake Owlkin

Posts: 79 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
For the record, GW2 doesn't have person to person trading, and it has 15% total trading post fees. 5% to list (ours is going to be 2%) plus an additional 10% is taken out of the gold paid by the buyer before delivery to the seller.

GW2 is also the only game I've ever seen without massive inflation devaluing everyone's money.

Having just read the death and taxes post, the proposed tariff would slow down the inflation rate, but would do nothing to reverse it. If they are going to implement a tariff anyways, they might as well make it high enough to stabilize the economy at a more equitable level, or at the very least make it high enough to completely cease the net gold added per day.

04-Jan-2023 19:53:57

Fish Kitten
Sep Member 2013

Fish Kitten

Posts: 1,199 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Rikornak said :

- The system is not intended to fight inflation, it's intended to counteract the reduced (important word - enough players in here think dying is free) death costs from PvM. That might be worth to be re-evaluated (i.e. if the effect is bigger or smaller than intended) after some time.

That last part is a good point and hopefully Jagex will be flexible and adjust things as needed. That may even need to become a permanent process to keep things working.

As for game inflation, there's really no good way to fight it, considering the source of all this ballooning gold is a core game mechanic (i.e. endless items/gp appear from nowhere). What was surprising to me from the list Jagex released, were the gold sources coming in under the obvious ones like alchemy and monster drops. It's pretty revealing that TH cash bags are over 4% of daily gold generated. Same goes for the money tree. I would've never figured those were that high.

04-Jan-2023 20:53:16 - Last edited on 04-Jan-2023 20:53:58 by Fish Kitten

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
DEATH COSTS: A MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH

"The 1.5% estimate would theoretically cover the death cost deficit, but we aimed for 2% to have a buffer."


They put up a 2% GE tax when only 1.5% is enough, so much for 10% or more like the other games.

Just stick with 2% tax. I don't want to pay more.

04-Jan-2023 23:21:45

Lions RAWR
Sep Member 2019

Lions RAWR

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I would be interested in seeing what Jagex does if players decide that the Tax on the GE is to much for them and they start to trade player to player to avoid the tax altogether.

One thing that the RS player base is known to do is: Create a totally different method to get the results that they want.

Time will tell though Time to follow an trail of Treasure.
My Goals Lions Goals

05-Jan-2023 00:51:38

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Lions RAWR said :
I would be interested in seeing what Jagex does if players decide that the Tax on the GE is to much for them and they start to trade player to player to avoid the tax altogether.

One thing that the RS player base is known to do is: Create a totally different method to get the results that they want.

Time will tell though

That won't happen because time is more valuable than a small and fair 2% tax.

They also told us their other options on individual items too on the same blog. They have plenty of ways to reduce gp output besides GE tax anyway.

05-Jan-2023 01:14:14

Lions RAWR
Sep Member 2019

Lions RAWR

Posts: 9,271 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Lions RAWR said :
I would be interested in seeing what Jagex does if players decide that the Tax on the GE is to much for them and they start to trade player to player to avoid the tax altogether.

One thing that the RS player base is known to do is: Create a totally different method to get the results that they want.

Time will tell though

Dilbert2001 said :

That won't happen because time is more valuable than a small and fair 2% tax.

You don't know that, but hey.. at least you are against everything that anyone says right?

Dilbert2001 said :

They also told us their other options on individual items too on the same blog. They have plenty of ways to reduce gp output besides GE tax anyway.

Yet they are going with the GE tax because... well you already know why they did it ;) Having options to do it does not mean they will do it. Time to follow an trail of Treasure.
My Goals Lions Goals

05-Jan-2023 02:10:58 - Last edited on 05-Jan-2023 02:14:23 by Lions RAWR

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