forums.rs

Forums

Let's chat - Clan Ava Rework

Quick find code: 86-87-505-65969395

of 19
Luna Kitten
Aug Member 2008

Luna Kitten

Posts: 4,447 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Again there's no point ranking up in the first place. What do you get? A little symbol next to your name in the online clan list? Most people don't care about ranks in my clan because there's literally no point. What's the point of going through the trouble setting up events if people don't want to attend because you don't get anything clan-related from it?
*´¨)
.................................................................
(¨´*
¸.•´¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
.......................
(¨*•.¸(¨´*•.¸´•.¸
(¸.•´ (¸.•
..
Leader of Frooby Family
..
•.¸)´• .¸)

04-Dec-2017 02:37:03 - Last edited on 04-Dec-2017 02:37:52 by Luna Kitten

Sicariu
Feb Member 2011

Sicariu

Posts: 9,648 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Luna Kitten said :
Again there's no point ranking up in the first place. What do you get? A little symbol next to your name in the online clan list? Most people don't care about ranks in my clan because there's literally no point. What's the point of going through the trouble setting up events if people don't want to attend because you don't get anything clan-related from it?
That's an internal issue within a clan, not a clan-wide issue. There have been ranks since the introduction of the original Clan Chat in 2007 (now Friend Chats), and ranks existed in there for years before Avatars were introduced to the game in 2012. I don't want to judge how your clan structures ranking, and I feel I've already made all the points I can respond with in my last post.

If you feel this is something that should be addressed, try posting in the #clan_ideas_voting channel on the Clan Leader Discord. More people will see it there, and you're likely to get a better idea of how many people support your idea. This thread is for direct responses to the Avatar Rework, and this is starting to go a bit off-topic delving into how clans structure their ranking systems. To comment on that though, my clan's ranking system will be unaffected. ~ Sicariu
Leader of
No Sigil No Sleep
- founded 1 April 2013
Need Clan Help ?

04-Dec-2017 02:51:12

Kibbles RNC

Kibbles RNC

Posts: 130 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Subzero said :

To me, Avatars exist for the following purposes:

1) - To serve the diverse needs of different clans. (This is why we have a variety of buffs instead of just an XP buff.)

2) - To bring clanmates together. (This is why we share a set number of Avatars, and why their buffs should work server-wide.)

By removing all of the buffs you destroy the first purpose. By giving every clanmate their own Avatar you destroy the second purpose.

This.

I think the current update will cause less tensions around the avatar than our current set-up but there's a huge price to pay in principle for this, as Sub noted.

To add on, it's going to even further incentivize every player to join a clan for XP. At least nowadays there's limitations - there's only X many avatars, only X ranks can hold it, you have to collect orts, etc. There are currently more hoops to go through, which serve as a limit to the benefit. The proposal makes capping the only hoop for an additional bonus (which is a good hoop, but still). These types of updates can have numerous consequences in terms of recruiting, how clans operate, the purpose of clans, etc. Stuff that I'm not sure is even crossing peoples' minds.

It's just funny - you take an ax to the foundation of clanning enough times, you're going to get people like the above asking - "Well, what's the purpose of ranks without avatar?".

More and more people are going to be asking questions like that - and they should - because that's the path clans has been on for a while now. It's becoming about what Jagex-supplied benefits can we give people. Stuff that has zero to do with your own actual clan, creativity, etc.

I started my clan nearly twelve years ago and it just amuses me that every "clan" updates seems to make clanning less about clans and more about XP/benefits.
Kibbles RNC
|
Mascot

Rogue Ninja Civilization Thread | Clan Chat: Rogue Ninja Civ
† You can test our Faith, but you can't take our Pride. †

04-Dec-2017 05:45:34 - Last edited on 04-Dec-2017 08:03:31 by Kibbles RNC

Kibbles RNC

Kibbles RNC

Posts: 130 Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Sorry to be a Debbie-downer about this update, I think it'll provide a lot of short-term relief that people are looking for (which is good), but eventually it would be nice to get back to updates that promote community among clan members, interaction, etc. rather than just "Hey welcome to my clan, here's your complimentary 3%!"

Appreciate you thinking of us though, Mod Shauny.
Kibbles RNC
|
Mascot

Rogue Ninja Civilization Thread | Clan Chat: Rogue Ninja Civ
† You can test our Faith, but you can't take our Pride. †

04-Dec-2017 05:49:09

CuddleBucket

CuddleBucket

Posts: 17,474 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Luna Kitten said :
Just an idea:For example:
I'd like to set the 3% XP Boost Avatar access for Lieutenants.
I'd like to set the 4% boost for Captains
5% boost for Generals
and 6% boost for Admins
Sicariu said :
I think this idea gives too much room for abuse within the clan settings, and it would likely be much more difficult to code. I can imagine small disputes causing players to get demoted, thus decreasing their xp boost unfairly, or even demotions as a bad joke to clan members who are xp grinders. Luna Kitten said :
Then why have a ranking system at all? There is literally no point.
I think this is a discussion that needs to be continued.
While most of us 'generally' like the upcoming update, we're very aware that it's cleverly being used to kill 2 birds with 1 stone.
There has been widespread call to remove the upkeep burden, & while we don't accept the reasoning for keeping it, we've been told it's staying.
By tying fealty to xp boost, you are encouraging tedious & unrewarding citadel work.

You can argue this is or isn't more relevant to maxed citadels, but they certainly face another issue.
With nothing new to aim for, the citadel work feels like a forced chore, with little joy gained from it.

So we understand the multi pronged point of this future update.

But I think the above may also become a significant issue.
With a significant advantage of being a higher rank being taken away, that of using the ava for the xp boost, it may be even harder to get help running a clan.
It draws focus to the point of the ranking system, the benefit (or lack of) of ranking up, & hopefully you spend some time considering what we are able to offer those who help us with clan administration, to help us provide motivation for this significant need.
It takes real work done by people to maintain clans.
YOU WIN OR YOU LEARN

*
~
^
~
*
B
onus
XP
*
~
^
~
*

04-Dec-2017 10:17:19

Lumine

Lumine

Posts: 15,239 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Luna Kitten said :
Just an idea:


We have a ranking system for a reason, why not use that for the extra 3% instead of Fealty Rank? That way people would stop complaining about how capping is pointless, and people would actually have incentive to rank up.
For example:

I'd like to set the 3% XP Boost Avatar access for Lieutenants.
I'd like to set the 4% boost for Captains
5% boost for Generals
and 6% boost for Admins


No, this would completely wreck my clan's ranking (or non-ranking) system. Particular insignia indicate particular roles or responsibilities in my clan, not levels of importance or status.

I emphatically don't want people who are actually of equal status in the clan gaining different boosts just because they have different insignia, thanks to having different roles.
Lumine
Patrona Emerita
of the
Caped Carousers
quest cape clan
93-94-178-66118830

04-Dec-2017 11:25:54

Mod Shauny

Mod Shauny

Jagex Moderator Forum Profile Posts by user
I'm not a fan of capping % XP boosts to ranks whatsoever personally.

You as a player should work towards the 3% boost and if you're getting Fealty that means you're helping your Clan with resources also.

Benefit for you, as well as your clan.

Just my two cents :) Mod Shauny - RuneScape Community Management - Goebies! - @JagexShauny
I love Clans!

04-Dec-2017 12:19:55

Lyrehca

Lyrehca

Posts: 1,855 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
CuddleBucket said :
With a significant advantage of being a higher rank being taken away, that of using the ava for the xp boost, it may be even harder to get help running a clan.
It draws focus to the point of the ranking system, the benefit (or lack of) of ranking up, & hopefully you spend some time considering what we are able to offer those who help us with clan administration, to help us provide motivation for this significant need.
It takes real work done by people to maintain clans.
Clan avatars were not released alongside Clans or even Citadels and came along more than a year later.

I think most responsible clans look for much more in the way of appointing Admin+ ranks than who wants the extra 3% xp buff.

My clan had a ranking system in place which was not affected at all by release of the Clan Avatar. We merely had to decide which existing admins would have the additional responsibility (not privilege) of calling them out for the clan and a job change to Warden. I see the job as much more of a chore, having to be available to call an ava out, often having to adjust what one is doing them-self for the benefit clan instead. For that reason our clan has a rule that the Ava isn't to be called out unless at least 1 other person is logged into the game to benefit. I don't want my admins abusing something meant as a clan-wide benefit.

Even now, we choose our admins based on service to the clan, never offering the Avatar Warden job as an incentive.

04-Dec-2017 13:10:44

Goldberry
Oct Member 2012

Goldberry

Posts: 2,036 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I have some questions about fealty:

1. Will players still get the 15/30/45% bonus when skilling at the citadel if they have fealty 1/2/3?

2. Will the clan cloak still offer a fealty reward in any skill?

3. Can a statement be added to the Adventurer's Log that a member attained fealty similar to the recent additions of a clan visit and capping? My clan does use cit resource gathering as a part of the ranking system but not capping. We require that members skill enough to earn fealty as a part of our ranking system. Tracking this would be much easier if it was added to the Adventurer's Log and might help answer members' questions about why they are not getting their full buff after the changes.

4. Will we still be able to click on a member in-game to track their resource gathering as we can now?

04-Dec-2017 22:52:37

Quick find code: 86-87-505-65969395 Back to Top