RuneScape Forum Archive | Why do Citadels have Upkeep?

Jul

2006

Felicity

Posts: 1,696 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Esploratore said :
Subzero said :

... The reason I do not think Citadels should lose Tiers once they have been earned is because all it takes is two bad weeks to lose your Tier - and a Tier 7 Citadel can take months to earn. This is overly punishing and highly unfair.

100% agree.

Considering how much time and effort it takes to achieve Tier 7, especially in small to medium sized clans, the penalty is overly punishing.

It's ironic how much time commitment the citadel requires from players when it's been largely neglected content.

Agreed and Agreed

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06-May-2017 23:25:38

Will Dee

Posts: 2,964 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Subzero said :

Once you have earned a Tier it is fundamentally wrong to strip it from you and make you earn the entire Tier again.

Or at the very least make it like a month or more before you lose a tier. It takes clans years to build their citadel and weeks to lose it. We could also just have a system where upkeep is stored, and you have to get all the upkeep you've missed before cit can come back. If you wanted once the upgrade cost from the previous tier to current is more than upkeep citadel could drop a level - at least that's more 'fair'.

Subzero said :
As much as I personally dislike the current Upkeep system, it's unlikely that Jagex will cheapen it with "instant Capping" tokens.

This is a bit too much, something similar to orts may be a better option where 1 ort - > 1 resource of any type. If needed make orts rarer.
Or, we could give these orts through rated clan wars - it'd be a slower method to get upkeep but a potential way to get people warring again.
You could extend it further to mini games as well, by being able to buy orts for thaler.

If all we want to measure is Does this clan have active members?, then there's no reason we should not extend beyond the citadel. If we want to require some 'teamwork' then the citadel terribly fails and warring would definitely succeed at that. °ï¦ï° Ðuel (PvM) Forum °ï¦ï°
Duel is a pvm Teaching/Events clan- Bosses include: Raids, AoD, RoTS, and HM Vorago.
(Click Clan name for link to forums)

08-May-2017 03:28:14 - Last edited on 08-May-2017 03:33:08 by Will Dee

Mar

2018

Scret

Posts: 25,434 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Will Dee said :
Subzero said :

Once you have earned a Tier it is fundamentally wrong to strip it from you and make you earn the entire Tier again.

Or at the very least make it like a month or more before you lose a tier. It takes clans years to build their citadel and weeks to lose it. We could also just have a system where upkeep is stored, and you have to get all the upkeep you've missed before cit can come back. If you wanted once the upgrade cost from the previous tier to current is more than upkeep citadel could drop a level - at least that's more 'fair'.

Subzero said :
As much as I personally dislike the current Upkeep system, it's unlikely that Jagex will cheapen it with "instant Capping" tokens.

This is a bit too much, something similar to orts may be a better option where 1 ort - > 1 resource of any type. If needed make orts rarer.
Or, we could give these orts through rated clan wars - it'd be a slower method to get upkeep but a potential way to get people warring again.
You could extend it further to mini games as well, by being able to buy orts for thaler.

If all we want to measure is Does this clan have active members?, then there's no reason we should not extend beyond the citadel. If we want to require some 'teamwork' then the citadel terribly fails and warring would definitely succeed at that.

These ideas seem over complicated and redundant for what is a very simple "fix". Firstly a lot people dont really care all that much for capping at the citadel so it most certainly isnt going to be enticing reward at clan wars or at mini games. secondly this is again just shoe horning random rewards into random areas of the game much like shoving something into a pvm drop for the sake of it which has been one of the biggest downfalls of the game and biggest contributor to dead content.

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09-May-2017 08:25:15 - Last edited on 09-May-2017 08:25:36 by Scret

Will Dee

Posts: 2,964 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Scret said :

These ideas seem over complicated and redundant for what is a very simple "fix". Firstly a lot people dont really care all that much for capping at the citadel so it most certainly isnt going to be enticing reward at clan wars or at mini games. secondly this is again just shoe horning random rewards into random areas of the game much like shoving something into a pvm drop for the sake of it which has been one of the biggest downfalls of the game and biggest contributor to dead content.

Yes, but they don't want to remove upkeep... and people don't like the slaving away at citadel. If the only reason they want to keep upkeep is so that can measure clan activity - dead clans should lose citadel. Then allowing for a system which would extend into normal activities members do and allowing them to contribute via that may be a solution? Orts already exist in game, make them a bit rarer and just change them to upkeep would it be too complicated? If not adding in alternatives such as mini games and wars may convince some clans to start doing those more. And the entire goal is to measure activity so I don't see why not measure with actual clan events. °ï¦ï° Ðuel (PvM) Forum °ï¦ï°
Duel is a pvm Teaching/Events clan- Bosses include: Raids, AoD, RoTS, and HM Vorago.
(Click Clan name for link to forums)

12-May-2017 09:48:04 - Last edited on 12-May-2017 09:50:37 by Will Dee

Mar

2018

Scret

Posts: 25,434 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

@will dee

The solution is simple so it then comes down to who either agrees to it or not, we shouldnt be throwing around alternatives to what some consider a problem with what i consider to be really crap ideas if im honest, you cant please everyone and shouldnt attempt to please everyone because the game becomes a confused mess just like it is now.

Its like when the game switched to EOC and then Jagex realised they messed up they tried a series of solutions which over complicated the game and made it a complete wreck with no identity of what it wanted to be in an attemp to try and please everyone and bring back its player base the result of this is multiple combat styles in the game which just honestly causes more problems then it solve, a spin off game old school which just split the community and then started overshadowing the main game, a bizzare attempt at making a second spin off game darkscape which thank god was scrapped but must have cost a lot in development hours.

I want to see upkeep removed, i think it would make the content more relaxed and fun but its decent content as it is, i wouldnt see the point in damaging it with solutions i think would cause more harm than good, lets keep the upkeep as a citadel activity and not force it into other areas of the game like they have done with so much other content.

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12-May-2017 12:46:57 - Last edited on 12-May-2017 12:47:43 by Scret

Mod Maz

Jagex Moderator Forum Profile Posts by user

If a citadel does not down tier, you will be left with clans who have shrunk in size but are still active and participating but now has a citadel that they can not possibly earn the upkeep to get out of being dilapidated. This would mean they would then have to disband the clan, then completely reform it again and start from tier 1 citadel. Is that fair? I think not. Mod Maz
Queen of the Squirrels
RS Training & Developer Lead

12-May-2017 13:57:54

Mar

2018

Scret

Posts: 25,434 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Mod Maz said :
If a citadel does not down tier, you will be left with clans who have shrunk in size but are still active and participating but now has a citadel that they can not possibly earn the upkeep to get out of being dilapidated. This would mean they would then have to disband the clan, then completely reform it again and start from tier 1 citadel. Is that fair? I think not.

Well i highly doubt a clan that cant meet upkeep for tier 7 citadel wont be able to start a new clan and attempt to reach tiers again. Theres no sense to doing that. Its far easier to just meet the upkeep than to start again. Its an extremely unlikely scenario.

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12-May-2017 16:08:26

Subzero

Posts: 23,266 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Mod Maz said :
If a citadel does not down tier, you will be left with clans who have shrunk in size but are still active and participating but now has a citadel that they can not possibly earn the upkeep to get out of being dilapidated.

Thanks for the comments.

I feel that the scenario you described is preferable to the current scenario where Tiers can be lost.

I can recruit new clanmates to alleviate a situation where we don't have enough clanmates to meet upkeep. As long as Tiers aren't lost, that's fine - we can recruit then meet upkeep without severe losses. However, under the current system there's also a risk of us losing the Tier if I fail; a risk which isn't present in your scenario.

Speaking from first-hand leadership, having built a Tier 7 Citadel, I would much prefer your scenario to occur than I would the current system.

_________________________________________________________

You're aware of this already I'm sure Maz, but one could perform a check before triggering a drop in Tiers:

• If Clan has required amount of clanmates to meet upkeep - Don't drop tier.

• If Clan does not have required amount of clanmates to meet upkeep - Drop tier. (Essentially, a last resort to prevent your scenario.)

_________________________________________________________

An alternative solution would be to allow Clan leaders to force the dropping of a Citadel Tier - which would take two weeks to occur and could be cancelled before then.

This would be the only way Clans would lose Tiers; it would only be used as a last resort in the scenario you describe.

Subzero

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12-May-2017 22:52:38 - Last edited on 13-May-2017 00:08:49 by Subzero

Mod Maz

Jagex Moderator Forum Profile Posts by user

Subzero said :
Mod Maz said :
If a citadel does not down tier, you will be left with clans who have shrunk in size but are still active and participating but now has a citadel that they can not possibly earn the upkeep to get out of being dilapidated.

• If Clan has required amount of clanmates to meet upkeep - Don't drop tier.

• If Clan does not have required amount of clanmates to meet upkeep - Drop tier. (Essentially, a last resort to prevent your scenario.)

This is exactly what upkeep does. You prove you have the people to meet it, tier is not dropped. Mod Maz
Queen of the Squirrels
RS Training & Developer Lead

16-May-2017 07:48:07

Subzero

Posts: 23,266 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Thanks for the reply.

Mod Maz said :
This is exactly what upkeep does.

Whilst Upkeep does ensure that the problem you outlined does not arise, it also acts as an overly-punishing system for those who don't want to lose their Tier. Clans in the situation you describe do want to lose a Tier (as you described it would be unfair if they didn't.)

• Tier dropping is a good thing when Clans wants to drop a Tier, such as when they don't have enough members to meet upkeep, and they don't intend on recruiting more.

• Tier dropping is a bad thing when they don't want to drop a Tier, such as when a Clan drops in membercount and no longer has enough to meet upkeep, but they do intend on recruiting more.

In the second situation, you may suggest that the Clan can re-earn the Tier after recruiting more clanmates; however, my perspective is that the time it takes to re-earn a Tier is disproportionately high when taken into account that it only takes two weeks to lose. The loss and re-earning process would therefore be highly upsetting to many Clans.

________________________________________________________________

I have morphed my suggestion in a way that I believe meets both the criteria of our views:

The only way a Clan should drop a Tier is if Upkeep is not met, and Clan leaders/Staff tell the Quartermaster that they wish to drop a Tier on the next build.

• It prevents the situation you outline from occuring (where a Clan is stuck with a Tier they can't upkeep.)

• It also alleviates my perspective that tier dropping on upkeep failure is overly punishing.

Subzero

Incursione 2100+/130+ Clan, Avatar access for all.

16-May-2017 10:42:04 - Last edited on 16-May-2017 12:42:44 by Subzero

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Why do Citadels have Upkeep?