Forums

Why do Citadels have Upkeep?

Quick find code: 86-87-406-65897981

Subzero

Subzero

Posts: 23,266 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
As the title asks, why do Clan Citadels have Upkeep? I'm wondering, what's the objective purpose behind it other than to force repeated interaction if your clan wants to keep the things it's earned?

At this moment in time I can understand upkeep because it's a method of 'paying' for your clan's rights to use its Avatars.

Presumably, once the Avatar changes go live, there will be no difference between a Tier 7 Citadel and a Tier 1 Citadel when it comes to the Avatar. Everyone has their own, and the buff is based only on your Fealty.

------------------------------------------------------------

Will having a dilapidated Citadel disable people from summoning Avatars on the new system? If so, this mostly mitigates my concerns.


-------------------------------------------------------------

If a dilapidated Citadel does not prevent people from summoning Avatars on the new system, then is there a reason to keep a Tier 7 Citadel aside from bragging rights?

In theory, you could assert that the XP boosts from Tier 7 skill plots are a good reason to keep a Tier 7 Citadel, but in practice the XP rates/rewards are pretty underwhelming regardless of their tie, in comparison to other widely accessible training methods.

Though, even if the Skill plots were good, upkeep from this perspective would be redundant because the Citadel would get plenty of use anyway; seems like upkeep is just a method to force usage of under-rewarding content?

-------------------------------------------------------------


I'd like to suggest that once a Clan reaches a certain Tier Citadel, then they can no longer drop to a lower Tier. For example, once a Clan achieves a Tier 6 Citadel, no matter how much the Citadel is neglected, it will not drop Tiers. (However, it would still become dilapidated as currently, and all benefits would be blocked until restored.)

Losing Citadel tiers is overly punishing - all it takes is two bad weeks, and a Clan could lose months of work.

Cheers.
Subzero

Incursione 2100+/130+ Clan, Avatar access for all.

05-Apr-2017 01:17:47 - Last edited on 10-Apr-2017 21:15:26 by Subzero

Ceecs
Mar Member 2010

Ceecs

Posts: 16,166 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
A high tier citadel should be considered as a clan achievment and something not every clan could have due the upkeep maybe.

So only active clans can have a citadel. To be honest is the upkeep cost not that high and skilling there quite worth it for mid levels.
Ceecs - leader of Ceecs Clan
Rank in Star Find, Harmed Ore, Beach FC | Ex-Rank in Fast SC

Ceecs Clan: DUTCH ONLY RS3 clan & Winner of the Iron Skilled Cup 2015!

05-Apr-2017 10:55:53

Mod Matthe

Mod Matthe

Jagex Moderator Forum Profile Posts by user
Citadels have upkeep for a number of design reasons, not least that a Citadel is a reward of being an active clan.

With the changes coming to the Clan Avatar a dilapidated citadel will mean the Clan is unable to use its avatars until it is restored. Upkeep will be required still.
Mod MattHe | Former Community Manager, now in Events & occasional Lore Monkey

05-Apr-2017 11:03:28

Kera
Aug Member 2010

Kera

Posts: 11,100 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Ceecs said :
A high tier citadel should be considered as a clan achievment and something not every clan could have due the upkeep maybe.

So only active clans can have a citadel. To be honest is the upkeep cost not that high and skilling there quite worth it for mid levels.


+1
Kera:
Proud leader of Shattered Moon

05-Apr-2017 12:38:18

Subzero

Subzero

Posts: 23,266 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Ceecs said :
To be honest is the upkeep cost not that high and skilling there quite worth it for mid levels.


Objectively, the Skilling XP isn't great. Clan Citadels aren't "mid level" content (they're for all players), else I'd sympathise with the perspective of upkeep not being too bad. Bbecause the XP is pretty bad for high levels, it turns the upkeep into a chore.


Ceecs said :
So only active clans can have a citadel


Why, though?

The actual milestone of a Tier 7 Citadel is difficult to achieve in the first place.

I think it would be better if once you achieve a Citadel Tier, you cannot drop to a lower Tier. However, the Citadel would still dilapidated if no one used it - but it wouldn't lose Tiers.

When dilapidated you'd be locked out of Avatars, Sparkly Vex, Bonus XP, etc. But to allow for Clan leaders to make a comeback, without losing all of their progress, I'd argue that it shouldn't drop tiers.
Subzero

Incursione 2100+/130+ Clan, Avatar access for all.

05-Apr-2017 15:03:16

Subzero

Subzero

Posts: 23,266 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Mod Matthe said :
Citadels have upkeep for a number of design reasons, not least that a Citadel is a reward of being an active clan.


Would you discuss the other design reasons?


I feel that once a clan achieves something, said achievement shouldn't be removed from them if they fall behind.

The Citadel system wherein you can drop Tiers is highly unforgiving for clans facing difficult times, and one of the biggest stresses Clan leaders face is worrying about losing their Citadel Tier.

In my opinion, Citadels should always become dilapidated if they are neglected (and you would lose all the benefits until you restore them), but they should never drop tiers.

This allows redemption for failing clans -- without fearing that all of their hard work will be lost in the process.

Mod Matthe said :
With the changes coming to the Clan Avatar a dilapidated citadel will mean the Clan is unable to use its avatars until it is restored. Upkeep will be required still.


Thanks for confirming
Subzero

Incursione 2100+/130+ Clan, Avatar access for all.

05-Apr-2017 15:07:11 - Last edited on 05-Apr-2017 16:23:18 by Subzero

Scret
Mar Member 2018

Scret

Posts: 25,434 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Something ive argued for for a while, it does suck some of the joy out of the citadel having to worry about losing it even if the upkeep is small. theres no real practical rewards for it to even matter. I say remove it, keeps things simple and enjoyable.
`*•.¸(*•.¸(`*•.¸+¸.•*´)¸.•*)¸.•*´
+«´¨`•°
SKILL SCHOOL
•´¨`»+
. .•*(¸.•*´(¸.•*´+`*•.¸)`*•.¸)*•.

05-Apr-2017 15:59:03

Zyphix
Sep Member 2010

Zyphix

Posts: 3,919 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I concur with Subzero to the effect of having once unlocked or reached an achievement, it shouldn't be revoked, but on the other hand, it's symbolic to other players joining how active a clan is in terms of upkeeping a citadel, but not necessarily indication of how well a clan is run, or how active the clan itself is. Perhaps they don't partake in Citadels at all? But it does help players that wish to use one find clans that actively do.

There's alot to this, and I agree once T7 is unlocked, it should remain so. Sparkly vex shouldn't go away. But dilapidation, and avatar revoke should occur. It does make sense to have more middle ground like this. But again, displaying of the Tier level to other players though... How would we dodge that? And I think that's the biggest reason we can't just adjust or change the system. It's designed that way, on purpose, for many specific reasons, this being just one of them. Unless the clan system rewrite ever was going through, there's no other way to indicate clan activeness/group involvement to other players in terms of displaying static data that symbolizes such.

I'd be all on board for this suggestion if on there were a way to hash it out though.
Clan:
l||l°~
Void Nation
~°l||l
|
20+ Veteran
|
Balance is Eternal


JAGeX Verified Clan Site:
voidnation.boards.n3t

06-Apr-2017 03:22:52

Mod Matthe

Mod Matthe

Jagex Moderator Forum Profile Posts by user
There are two types of achievements in RuneScape, ones that once achieved are parked and ones that require maintenance. It tends to be that the ones that require maintenance provide a number of solid game advantages for the players that benefit from them - Citadel is one of those.

While some high level players complain about the XP levels from the Citadel plots not being best in class (and it is highly unlikely they would ever be) they are still very good given the "free" nature of the skilling method compared to normal skilling methods, especially with the full fealty bonus. It also provides for the avatar bonus which boosts so many other skilling methods in the wider game.

I think we would be more likely to scrap Citadels entirely than we would be to remove the upkeep requirement.
Mod MattHe | Former Community Manager, now in Events & occasional Lore Monkey

06-Apr-2017 08:24:01 - Last edited on 06-Apr-2017 08:27:33 by Mod Matthe

Quick find code: 86-87-406-65897981 Back to Top