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Why do Citadels have Upkeep?

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Subzero

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AngryAraxxor said :
I'm not sure if a reward rework is necessarily a different discussion.


A rework of Citadel rewards is a large discussion topic and isn't one I think is suitable to cram into this thread.

AngryAraxxor said :
heavy punishment of losing tiers doesn't weigh up against the possible benefits a citadel provides?


The heavy punishment of losing tiers would become redundant if the rewards were good, because every player would want to use the Citadel and therefore no Citadels would become dilapidated. However, it's highly unlikely that the Citadels will ever become highly rewarding due to the nature of them being attached to Clans.

The problem I outlined can be fixed more simply by preventing Citadels from dropping Tiers (however they would still become dilapidated, as currently, when neglected.)


This thread isn't to discuss a rework of Clan rewards because a rework is a much more complicated topic and would take longer to develop -- whereas the topic of this thread is fairly simple and quicker to address.
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08-Apr-2017 18:11:42

Esploratore
Apr Member 2006

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Subzero said :


... The reason I do not think Citadels should lose Tiers once they have been earned is because all it takes is two bad weeks to lose your Tier - and a Tier 7 Citadel can take months to earn. This is overly punishing and highly unfair.


100% agree.

Considering how much time and effort it takes to achieve Tier 7, especially in small to medium sized clans, the penalty is overly punishing.

It's ironic how much time commitment the citadel requires from players when it's been largely neglected content.

09-Apr-2017 02:36:18 - Last edited on 09-Apr-2017 02:36:35 by Esploratore

Kera
Aug Member 2010

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At tier 7 it takes only 5 plus 3 avatars to meet upkeep. I've said it before, but if you cant even get this then you don't deserve to keep a t7. However, given the time taken to recoup what you lose , especially at t7, perhaps a much reduced cost to rebuild might help.

Haven't we had this discussion many times before ?
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13-Apr-2017 15:17:01 - Last edited on 13-Apr-2017 15:19:44 by Kera

Pescao6
Aug Member 2007

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Mod Matthe said :
I think we would be more likely to scrap Citadels entirely than we would be to remove the upkeep requirement.

I'd support that idea. Let's scrap Citadel! :D

Kera said :
At tier 7 it takes only 5 plus 3 avatars to meet upkeep. I've said it before, but if you cant even get this then you don't deserve to keep a t7. However, given the time taken to recoup what you lose , especially at t7, perhaps a much reduced cost to rebuild might help.

The highest tier our Clan achieved was tier 5 when it required 35 visitors.
Now you can get a tier 7 with 30 visitors.

At tier 4 it takes only 5 plus 2 avatars to meet upkeep.
Our Clan has reached tier 4 and collapsed to tier 1 multiple times.
Maybe we don't deserve tier 4.

Whenever I have time to be active, I'll bring more people to the CC and the Citadel will grow on its own. But what is it good for? What are we measuring? Active Members during a week that have time to spend 1+ hour grinding at a plot?

It's a poor measurement of a Clan's achievements and an ever poorer one of a Clan's ability to RSVP and pull people to events. By diplomacy alone, I manage to unite people from multiple Clans and pull so many to events that we end up splitting into different groups.

The Citadel tier simply measures whether a small Clan can be properly managed or a large Clan has enough people that Citadel Management no longer becomes a necessity.
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13-Apr-2017 18:01:47

Pescao6
Aug Member 2007

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Scret said :
I see citadels as being very similar to player owned houses and ports yet those do not require upkeep, so i question that logic.

Initially, they were seen as a place to host Clan Gatherings. But now most Clans gather using voip programs like TeamSpeak and Discord using the Grouping System to teleport to places.

And after the release of Prifddinas, Citadel became as redundant as the dead minigames Jagex revived with the Minigame spotlight.

So I don't know man. I don't think most people care about the Citadel or what tier your Clan is.

I wouldn't worry about the upkeep because I don't think it matters.

Unless Jagex can add something to make it worthwhile for people to want to be on Citadel, we will forever continue to have this endless discussion about what it should be.

With that in mind, I support the suggestion to prevent the Citadel from degrading tiers. It already gets locked if less than 5 people visit it and you already lose the avatars if the upkeep isn't met.

So why does it need to degrade tiers? Like what's the benefit of that?

@ Mod Matthe :


We're not saying remove the upkeep. Just don't make it a pain in the butt to repair the thing that took months to build.
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13-Apr-2017 18:01:56

Subzero

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Kera said :
Haven't we had this discussion many times before ?


No, we haven't.

People have asked to reduce/remove upkeep before - but that isn't what is being suggested here.

What I am suggesting is that one you achieve a Citadel Tier, you can not drop below that Tier.

Your Citadel will still become dilapidated if neglected (and therefore you will lose the benefits of it) -- however it will not drop tiers through dilapidation.

The reason for this is that once a Clan has earned a Tier, it is unfair and overly punishing to strip their hard work from them; especially when it takes only two weeks to lose it.

Kera said :
At tier 7 it takes only 5 plus 3 avatars to meet upkeep. I've said it before, but if you cant even get this then you don't deserve to keep a t7.

However, given the time taken to recoup what you lose , especially at t7, perhaps a much reduced cost to rebuild might help.


I agree that if a Clan does not meet upkeep then they shouldn't be able to claim all the benefits of a Citadel (not that there are any real benefits outside of cosmetics and the Avatars.)

However I do not agree that a Clan should be able to lose months of work because they have two bad weeks. That's why fundamentally I think it is wrong to strip Tiers from Clans who have a couple bad weeks.

Doesn't really haveanything to do with whether/not you "deserve" it. The whole notion of deserving in context of citadels isn't that relevant, because high tiers aren't easy to earn in the first place. I'd say that once you've earned the Tier, you deserve to at least keep that Tier.


Once you earn a Tier, you should stay that Tier - but if you neglect your Citadel it will still become dilapidated and you will lose its benefits till you restore it.
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14-Apr-2017 09:33:26 - Last edited on 18-Apr-2017 23:55:41 by Subzero

Leta
Jan
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2008

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Personally, I like Subzero's idea a lot.

Still need upkeep, but can not lose a hard-earned tier. Currently it is astonishingly easy to lose a tier when compared to how long it took to earn.

The citadel, for my clan at least, is more of a stress than anything currently, mostly for this reason. We are considering scrapping our t6 citadel all together, but we agree it would be a shame to lose all of our hard work. But I can say that citadel is not well enjoyed by my clan. We keep plugging along, just getting upkeep, but barely - I don't mandate citadel work. After so many years we are getting a bit burnt out.
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18-Apr-2017 18:17:00

Zyphix
Sep Member 2010

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Leta said :
Personally, I like Subzero's idea a lot.

Still need upkeep, but can not lose a hard-earned tier. Currently it is astonishingly easy to lose a tier when compared to how long it took to earn.

The citadel, for my clan at least, is more of a stress than anything currently, mostly for this reason. We are considering scrapping our t6 citadel all together, but we agree it would be a shame to lose all of our hard work. But I can say that citadel is not well enjoyed by my clan. We keep plugging along, just getting upkeep, but barely - I don't mandate citadel work. After so many years we are getting a bit burnt out.
I'd also support that. Keep dilapidation, but negate loss of Tier level gains.
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20-Apr-2017 03:32:00

Krisi
May Member 2009

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Leta said :
Personally, I like Subzero's idea a lot.

Still need upkeep, but can not lose a hard-earned tier. Currently it is astonishingly easy to lose a tier when compared to how long it took to earn.

The citadel, for my clan at least, is more of a stress than anything currently, mostly for this reason. We are considering scrapping our t6 citadel all together, but we agree it would be a shame to lose all of our hard work. But I can say that citadel is not well enjoyed by my clan. We keep plugging along, just getting upkeep, but barely - I don't mandate citadel work. After so many years we are getting a bit burnt out.


We are finding it hard as well atm, the citadel has been maxed for sometimes with nothing new to add to it. People are just over it :c
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