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Fire Hawk154

Fire Hawk154

Posts: 9,001 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Scret said :
Not everyone wants to use multiple offsite tools to just be able to better develop our clans. As extremely helpfull and easy to use as they are there are some that can really benefit us.

You cant just say deal with it and make that an ok excuse.

Things like clan mutes, whitelists, better rank customisation, onsite clan trackers, weekly/monthly hiscores for both clans and individuals, better PVP rankingand hiscores these should all be standard.

I understand where you're coming from, we're just in an entirely different position. Clan tools are really the least of our worries. There seem to be fundamental problems with RuneScape, with the lack of PvP and F2P players as a result. It's frustrating to see your clanmembers so unhappy with RuneScape3 that they'd rather spend 2000 hours training up on an 8 year old game just to have some fun again. So I hope you understand that with the problems my clans and friends have to face, those clan chat updates really seem unimportant. I do understand they're important for clans like yours though.
Clan Europe Staff
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Clan Cup Winners
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Maxed Pure F2P

22-Oct-2015 23:09:10

Tigergal44

Tigergal44

Posts: 2,269 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I understand where you are coming from Fire Hawk - we lost a decent chunk of the core of the clan to old school when it came out. Without a way other than pm and friend chat to communicate with us, and as the 2 games went in different directions we eventually lost contact. Sad but both sides were happy with their game and in my eyes it was better than the 100 or so we just lost to the game totally when rs3 came out. (hard to believe but we still have a good handful that are playing rs3 spasmodically but never come to grips with the new way of playing and are still struggling)

Now we have lost a handful to Darkscape - are these pvp players - 100% not. I have only known 1 of these players to kill anyone, even in the world events. They are Maxed players (in one case with 2 max accounts) who know they are not physically capable of getting Comp Cape , are not tempted by ironman (we have a good handful of Maxed players who have taken that route) and so have nowhere to go, nothing to aim for. Darkscape and retraining again will keep them going for a little while. Meanwhile it is another chunk of the clan that cannot get into cc and so will drift away unless both sides work very hard at keeping in contact.

Clans and all the lovely things we want maybe on a backburner so low it has gone out - but we are not worth spending the time on. Until Runescape is fixed, instead of being splintered, patched, and following fads - then we are all slowly dying anyway. Jagex by their own admission are not attracting many young new players, they are recycling the old players but at the same time are starving many of their customer base of the motivation or goals they need to continue - ie content / goals they are physically capable of.

23-Oct-2015 00:21:56 - Last edited on 23-Oct-2015 00:22:38 by Tigergal44

PantsuOnHead
Oct Member 2012

PantsuOnHead

Posts: 858 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Scret said :
What kind of terrible attitude is that from a game developer? "oh we dont need to do it because eventually the players will do it for us?" thats not setting a very good mindset.

Having to do things ourselves wouldn't be so bad if we had a proper API to work with. We don't. Which in turns makes us completely dependent on Jagex to make useful/ neat features for us.

I've considered doing some automation for things like cap checking through analysing the network traffic but I'm pretty sure that'd be agains the ToS/ rules. Sigh.
Clan Owner of Redditors

23-Oct-2015 12:51:33

Redtunnel

Redtunnel

Posts: 3,429 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
L0NE DRUID said :

It is hard for us to track what was a persons rank before they were bumped up to the Temp Admin rank and sometimes the rank that promoted the person logs out without communication with the other ranks so lot's of us are sitting there wondering why are all of these lower ranks suddenly Admin ranks.

[...]

So my solution to this was to create a static list of ranks which we only update once a member of the clan has officially been promoted so any of the other ranks can go back to the rank member sheet and check what that persons rank was before they got put up to the temporary avatar admin rank so any high ranking member can check the sheet and set the rank according to what is said.

I just checked your clan site and I'd just like to say it's looking great :) Keep up the awesome work!

In regards to the issue of keeping track of ranks, you don't need to update it manually. There actually is an API for retrieving the clan data:
http://services.runescape.com/m=clan-hiscores/members_lite.ws?clanName=zealmania

Note that Jagex arbitrarily throws in a non-breaking space instead of a regular space in the names sometimes. Here's a PHP example of how you can parse it:
http://puu.sh/kWiNZ/ac871816c4.txt

Name changes will be a problem, but there's a fairly simple solution to it. You always know your current members from the CSV file. So you compare the new CSV file with the old CSV data. If a name from the old CSV is missing in the new one, it means they either left the clan or changed their name. To identify which, you can run a stat comparison algorithm, comparing the stats of each missing old name with those of each new name. This, of course, means you also need to do stat tracking of all your clan members (or, alternatively, use a third party source).

I love your event planner. The attendee system you have gave me some ideas for our clan site :)

24-Oct-2015 23:39:59 - Last edited on 24-Oct-2015 23:54:52 by Redtunnel

L0NE DRUID
Jan Member 2011

L0NE DRUID

Posts: 8,683 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Redtunnel said :


I just checked your clan site and I'd just like to say it's looking great :) Keep up the awesome work!

In regards to the issue of keeping track of ranks, you don't need to update it manually. There actually is an API for retrieving the clan data:
http://services.runescape.com/m=clan-hiscores/members_lite.ws?clanName=zealmania

Note that Jagex arbitrarily throws in a non-breaking space instead of a regular space in the names sometimes. Here's a PHP example of how you can parse it:
http://puu.sh/kWiNZ/ac871816c4.txt

Name changes will be a problem, but there's a fairly simple solution to it. You always know your current members from the CSV file. So you compare the new CSV file with the old CSV data. If a name from the old CSV is missing in the new one, it means they either left the clan or changed their name. To identify which, you can run a stat comparison algorithm, comparing the stats of each missing old name with those of each new name. This, of course, means you also need to do stat tracking of all your clan members (or, alternatively, use a third party source).

I love your event planner. The attendee system you have gave me some ideas for our clan site :)

Hey there,

Thanks for your kind words and encouragement!

The PHP code you threw together is a great help :) cheers for that, and yeah the event planner is coming a long nicely, great to hear I am inspiring some people :D . A Jagex Verfied Community Helper
Leader of Zealmania
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A Runescape player since 2005
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@JagexHelpL0ne

Tech Issues? Click Me!

25-Oct-2015 00:16:34

PantsuOnHead
Oct Member 2012

PantsuOnHead

Posts: 858 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
You can also use the player API to see whether someone is part of a clan or not. If someone has left and hasn't changed their name you can easily filter them out of that list. Saves you a couple minutes of manually checking people.

Of course, if Jagex was willing to give us some form of unique user identifier instead we'd be able to solve these problems much easier and with much simpler methods. Above all, it'd be 100% accurate whereas everything we do now would be an educated guess.

Also, if Maz gives me the OK and is willing to explain how clan system messages are sent to the client, I could write the admin log feature that's been requested and denied a dozen times. We'd be able to keep track of kicks, leaves, joins, rank changes, etc. How feasible that is depends on the way in which they're sent to the client.
Clan Owner of Redditors

25-Oct-2015 13:03:11 - Last edited on 25-Oct-2015 13:06:45 by PantsuOnHead

Gluepot
Nov Member 2023

Gluepot

Posts: 4,315 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Bit of an explosive thread and also interesting seeing the views from older clans (pre clan system) and newer ones. Going to make this three parts
Jagex reasoning, our current situation and then the future 2016
. I'm not too involved in clans any more, but I do care about them.

Jagex reasoning

The biggest problem with clan content is it will only effect people within clans, and even then not all clans. The amount of work (from listening to Q&A's) is comparable to releasing invention, which can potentially affect a much larger number of players and isn't gating content behind the clan system. As Jagex have realised the clan system is a barrier to even get into, this makes any changes/updates less and less relevant to the greater player base and to remove this barrier takes a considerable amount of work.

Jagex always have a hard time deciding when to rework existing content or just optimising the code. In nearly all polls Jagex conduct, players ask for new content than old stuff remade (there are some exceptions).

Jagex really do care about clans. It saddens me whenever someone says that they don't, even though I've seen ups and downs of "presence."

A long time ago there was mention of voice chat coming to Runescape. Jagex often look into features. With the exceptions of a long overdue forum and clan forum rework, there are so many competent 3rd party solutions to which can add a great deal to your clan. Of course there's always difficulties with scams and trust and players using these 3rd parties but generally it is a huge waste of resources for Jagex developing a new thing for Runescape which won't come up to the standard of 3rd parties due to restrictions on chat and other things to keep it all from being abused.

I highly suggest looking around at your own solutions to some of your problems.
Ho Ho Ho!

The Imperial Legion

26-Oct-2015 00:53:01 - Last edited on 26-Oct-2015 01:10:30 by Gluepot

Gluepot
Nov Member 2023

Gluepot

Posts: 4,315 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
What we have


Many things in the clan system are redundant. But so is a lot of Runescape with content.
Clans have highscores, but this doesn't mean you are forced to use them or base your clan around them. Clans have citadels but you don't have to base your clan around them. Clans have avatars but again you don't have to base anything around them.

Someone mentioned about old school and darkscape pulling away players. Which to some extent they did and it's probably split the Runescape community a bit, but generally I don't think it's right to complain to Jagex for providing an experience those players will enjoy more and cater to their playing style.

We have no dedicated team or even a person working on clans.

We have a bunch of holes/cracks in the clan system that cause issues.

Runescape evolves and changes (good and bad), Clans do the same. Runescape isn't based around clans. Most MMO's aren't based around clans. Clans just generally fit well with MMO's due to large amount of content and also group content. With the likes of Iron Man, Runescape certainly caters to more than just clans and a player does not need a clan to enjoy the game. Therefore Jagex doesn't need clans. (it does care though and clans make the game more diverse)
Ho Ho Ho!

The Imperial Legion

26-Oct-2015 01:02:10

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