RuneScape Forum Archive | Inactive Clan Owners

Sep

2011

Ignore List

Posts: 4,879 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

@Thylordship

I completely agree with you 100%

@Raaf,

Lets take my clan into this, my clan owner went inactive if that was set in place now, how would she tick that box? so for me and clans in my position that becomes useless. =[

@Goldendaisy1,

I know of 3 clan's that had the owner kicked and no complaints were made at all, and in fact one leader came back and said thank god a Jmod did it as he did not want the clan to die.

@esploratore,

Ok I somewhat like that idea, but what about something like kicking inactive out of the clan? owners are the only people who can kick unlimited everyone under is on a limit of 2 a day.

@Goldendaisy,

You will see in the pages before all the people are opposed to kicking the leader, the general consensus being to demote the clan leader instead.

-----------------

I still personally feel Jagex allowing clans to email them and get their clan looked into on a case by case basis would be better, but they would need something in place to make sure it is the right decision such as asking the clan what they want.

Most clans wont be affected by an auto system, but for some clans such as mine it would be a godsend and I think until such a time a system is make Matthe and Maz should look into clans on a case by case basis and see what the clan thinks is the right decision.
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08-Dec-2013 19:21:14

Apr

2006

Esploratore

Posts: 1,675 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

My understanding when I read Matthe's original post is they can't deal with this issue on an ad hoc (case by case) basis. I wasn't in favor of an automated system to deal with the problem since it should probably be something that is handled on a case by case basis or Jagex shouldn't really get involved with it at all.

@Nice Timing:
We don't kick inactive members, since our members tend to drift in and out. It's Murphy's Law when someone was removed from the clan it wasn't long after that they were back playing Runescape, asking why they'd been kicked. Sooo we rarely sweep the list of members, and I don't know what the answer is about needing to kick groups of members all at one time and being unable to because of a missing clan owner. Perhaps it is one of the permissions that could be added to a comprehensive list.

08-Dec-2013 19:51:40

Apr

2023

Thylordship

Posts: 1,372 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

[#OUEGO5OBM] said :
If clan tools had never happened and I had gone inactive my clan would have set up again in a different FC. This is exactly what the new system does as well as not forcing clans to forego their name and stats and citadel. Not to mention the pain and difficulty in moving everyone to the new clan.

Why does a leader inherently deserve complete tenure in his position? He hasn't played in so long and has no idea what's gone on in his clan, why should he just waltz back at the top after someone else does all the work? How is that fair to those who did the work? Jagex isn't deciding who runs the clan, just making sure clans don't die off simply because one person stopped playing the game. It doesn't matter how intelligent or charismatic a person may be, one person is not a clan. One can create, lead, or mold a clan, but not be a clan.

As Nice Timing said, very few, if any, established clans would be affected by this system. If one somehow did get caught up in this, I doubt they'd have any problem reclaiming their spot as mutiny would occur otherwise. All my examples are for new clans or clans that are stuck. Most established clan leaders would have no problems avoiding this system.

Esploratore is right on the ad-hoc. They are against doing this on a case by case as they don't want accusations of preferential treatment etc.

08-Dec-2013 20:43:05

Ms Ghia

Posts: 4,750 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I'm still the clan owner of my clan even thought I havent played much the past year due to University, I'm still good friends with my co leaders that I picked, we still talk weekly, I'm still aware of how my clan is doing without even having to sign on, and if there's an issue they can contact me very fast. But they are doing great without me still and I can focus on school for now

(my clan just turned 5 years old)

09-Dec-2013 00:19:55

Aug

2007

Pescao6

Posts: 9,075 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Thylordship said :
[#OUEGO5OBM] said :
If clan tools had never happened and I had gone inactive my clan would have set up again in a different FC. This is exactly what the new system does as well as not forcing clans to forego their name and stats and citadel. Not to mention the pain and difficulty in moving everyone to the new clan.
That's not entirely accurate. Looking at my Clan's History , you can tell that half our Clan had a problem with our Inactive Founder; but the other half didn't care.

If it was such a big issue to get all of the permissions for the Clan Tools, I would imagine that the Deputy Owners of these Clans would've already left to start another Clan without their Inactive Owner.

Why wait months or even worse years knowing Jagex hasn't been removing Inactive Owners? Many Clans got to Tier 7 within a year of its release, so I think not leaving to preserve the Citadel is a dumb excuse.

Thylordship said :
Why does a leader inherently deserve complete tenure in his position? He hasn't played in so long and has no idea what's gone on in his clan, why should he just waltz back at the top after someone else does all the work? How is that fair to those who did the work?
Simple answer: 'Cause as a Leader, YOU can do whatever you want with YOUR Clan.

If ''Someone Else'' has a problem with that fact, then ''Someone Else'' can leave and start his/her own Clan.

PS: Life isn't fair.

Thylordship said :
Jagex isn't deciding who runs the clan, just making sure clans don't die off simply because one person stopped playing the game.
And since when does Jagex have the authority to decide if a Clan lives or dies? What if I decide I want my Clan to die when I'm gone? I could always kick everyone from the Clan and then there would be no Clan left for Jagex to rescue from imminent death!

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09-Dec-2013 04:53:52

Dec

2021

KittyFlower

Posts: 5,971 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Ignore List said :
Most clans wont be affected by an auto system, but for some clans such as mine it would be a godsend and I think until such a time a system is make Matthe and Maz should look into clans on a case by case basis and see what the clan thinks is the right decision.

do you know how many clans there are? out of those clans how many do you think might by chance have an inactive leader? if they looked at every single clan at a clan by clan basis as contacted by the clans do you think that they would have any time for anything else? such as the long list of growing updates we are nagging them for? I think that every clan is their own clan's responsibility. if it gets to a point you "NEED" an owner. you NEED to decide what is most important. having a leader or the specific clan you are in. is the cit and name "SO" important that you cannot make a new cc with a new leader?

09-Dec-2013 05:28:40

Astralach

Posts: 6,228 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

KittyFlower said :
Ignore List said :
Most clans wont be affected by an auto system, but for some clans such as mine it would be a godsend and I think until such a time a system is make Matthe and Maz should look into clans on a case by case basis and see what the clan thinks is the right decision.
do you know how many clans there are? out of those clans how many do you think might by chance have an inactive leader? if they looked at every single clan at a clan by clan basis as contacted by the clans do you think that they would have any time for anything else? such as the long list of growing updates we are nagging them for? I think that every clan is their own clan\'s responsibility. if it gets to a point you "NEED" an owner. you NEED to decide what is most important. having a leader or the specific clan you are in. is the cit and name "SO" important that you cannot make a new cc with a new leader?
What an insensitive post. Many clans have been around since the April 2011 update and would hate to start anew. It's not just the citadel, there's also clan members who are taking a break to be considered, as well as the clan hiscores, and the general clan community. It is unreasonable to expect clans to start afresh solely because their leader has quit or become inactive. This thread was created by Mod Matthe, so it's not as though a system to resolve such issues would be impossible to implement. A system that deals with this wouldn't consume all of Mods Matthe and Maz's time as it would likely be semiautomated. RGU | CLF | FGU | Ninja | EGC | Premier | General

09-Dec-2013 05:57:39

Apr

2023

Thylordship

Posts: 1,372 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Pescao6 said :
Why wait months or even worse years knowing Jagex hasn't been removing Inactive Owners? Many Clans got to Tier 7 within a year of its release, so I think not leaving to preserve the Citadel is a dumb excuse. It’s not just for the citadel. It’s for everything. People put their work into that clan. Changing isn’t easy. There’s value in a name and a history. There’s loyalty. And there’s hope. Hope that the owner will come back, Jagex will do something, or you’ll be fine. Not everyone is ready to jump ship at the same time and few people would want to leave their friends behind as they joined that clan for them.

Pescao6 said :
'Cause as a Leader, YOU can do whatever you want with YOUR Clan. Agreed. As a leader you can do whatever you want. My contention is that you stop being a leader when you stop playing rs. Why should rs acknowledge you as a leader if you stop playing the game? You did your time, you earned those rewards. Time still marches on and clans shouldn’t be relics of the past if they’re meant to succeed.

I do, however, feel if you’ve prepared your clan to last without you, there should be some overriding script to preempt the demotion. Maybe 50-80% of permissions accessible to dep owners?

Pescao6 said :
And since when does Jagex have the authority to decide if a Clan lives or dies? If you want to kill a clan intentionally, do it. Or if you want to be sadistic and watch it die, assuming you log in a few times a year to enjoy, it won’t affect this either. This isn’t addressing killing of clans. This is addressing the decay of clans due to neglect.

People don’t join clans based on leaders, nor do recruits understand the breakdown of how that clan is run. People assume that if a clan is recruiting, it wants to succeed. By the time people start getting so much as a hint otherwise, you’re already too engrained so you just hope you're wrong

09-Dec-2013 06:03:49

Mod Matthe

Jagex Moderator Forum Profile Posts by user

Okay, my personal thoughts on the matter.

There are MOOHASSIVE issues with ad hoc administration of Inactive Clan Owners.

- How can it be shown to be a just and fair decision?
- How can JMod's know they have made a just and fari decision?
- What social contracts are in place for Clans that Jagex might be unaware of?
- Under what pretext has the clan be established in the first place?
- The Clan Owner who has not logged in for 6 months; what happens if the log in tomorrow?
- How do Jagex record any decisions on administration of Inactive Clan Owners?
- How is removal/demotion of inactive Clan Owners done within the code and DB of Jagex? (really not a small ask)
- How easy is it for a JMod to reverse a poor decision?
- Who would the Clan Ownership pass to?
- How would a JMod assess the best target to pass Clan Ownership to?
- How many Clans have this issue?

The ultimate problem I have is that at the point a JMod does an ad hoc administration task on one clan and investigates that, they have to do it for every clan that comes along with the issue, or they are showing favouritism.

Since this thread was started I personally have been contacted by a number of different clans telling me they hear I am the JMod to remove inactive Clan Owners - I just don't have time to do all the investigation I believe should be involved before a JMod can be involved in such a decision, if they should be involved at all.

I am going to flag this issue for my Manager this afternoon and will keep you updated as to their response.

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09-Dec-2013 11:23:32

Feb

2017

Blasty

Posts: 9,319 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

Do you have any way of quickly collecting data on the activity of players who currently have CLF access?

If you haven't already looked at that data, perhaps it could be analyzed to get an idea of what combination of conditions fit someone who is inactive.

Also, as long as the conditions are made easy to access, active leaders will know the minimum requirements to not be automatically removed, and access can be regained even if they end up being automatically removed.

Blasty

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09-Dec-2013 11:39:21

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Inactive Clan Owners