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[#OUEGO5OBM]

[#OUEGO5OBM]

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TBH nobody has any idea how much drama inactive clan leaders causes to the clan mates. It is important to focus on the clan mates here and not the person asking for a clan leader to be removed as that person has to be excluded from consideration as it is more than likely them who they are putting forward as a replacement which makes their opinion biased. Mod Matthe has only the word of the people who have contacted him that an absentee clan leader is problematic for a clan. Also like I stated earlier drama usually doesn't appear until the status quo is changed and a new clan leader replaces the old who is unacceptable to the clan. Regardless of how the present system works or doesn't it would be very difficult to come up with a new system which would not have to rely on the biased view of the person/s who want to take over the clan for their own reasons which may have absolutely nothing in common with their clan.

12-Dec-2013 12:06:24

Thylordship
Apr Member 2023

Thylordship

Posts: 1,372 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
But isn't that's a very biased view of looking at it? So anyone that complains that a clan is failing shouldn't be considered because they're selfish and have an agenda? That's a fine way of not having to do anything... And the clanmate you're saying to ignore is also part of the group you're saying to focus on...

This system isn't taking people at their word; that's actually why they're doing an automated system, to make sure there's no bias and there's transparency.

And no offense but that's just your interpretation. As Mod Matthe and his team has the most information gathered and can observe any number of clans they wish to determine it, if he says there is enough problems with it, it's probably true. Mod Matthe is a jmod, he has access to whatever he wants/needs to make a decision :D

12-Dec-2013 12:51:43

[#OUEGO5OBM]

[#OUEGO5OBM]

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I'm just saying you can't be sure. That's not being biased. That's being cautious and realistic. Getting a realistic idea of how a clan feels about an inactive clan leader would take more time than any Jmod would have to devote to this, hence Mod Matthe said he didn't have the time available. I'm just pointing out that whatever solution is arrived at will not be an easy one. Playing devil's advocate if you like. That's the whole point of a discussion.

Very often what can seem like a fix for something isn't actually needed or will inevitably cause more problems than it will solve. There is nothing wrong with offering a different pov. It is up to you to make a good case for any kind of interference or change to the current system. So far all I have seen is evidence for a particular person wanting to take over an already existing clan which quite frankly isn't enough of a reason to change anything IMO.

12-Dec-2013 13:49:26

Thylordship
Apr Member 2023

Thylordship

Posts: 1,372 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I understand and apologize, I didn't mean to make you think I didn't respect your post, just meant to say I didn't agree with it. I have no desire to come across that I think my ideas are unquestionable and shouldn't be argued against.

And I agree that problems arise from updates, but with enough feedback and if it's well thought out enough, couldn't most of the damage be minimized to be an overall improvement?

You are right that Jmods can't go to every clan and check, but surely they can go into enough clans or view enough complaints on the forums as well as other sites and sources to get a base number that, once exceeded, means they need to do something?

And I find this notion interesting... Shouldn't the highest ranking member in his clan actually be the spokesperson for the clan? Isn't that a thing with a high ranking member of any organizing, when you speak about your group, it's assumed you speak on behalf of your group or are accurate in your analysis of it?

And it's possible the person just wants to be leader, but an automated system wouldn't take into account his feelings, but the actual state of the clan. Shouldn't the state of the clan supercede ulterior motives, if there are any?

12-Dec-2013 15:22:04

[#OUEGO5OBM]

[#OUEGO5OBM]

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Shouldn't the highest ranking member in his clan actually be the spokesperson for the clan?

There lies the problem. In a perfect world maybe we should be able to take a deputy at his word but in reality it is far more the case that the deputy has an ulterior motive for wanting the clan leader removed. The problem is no one can tell and therefore their word should not be the driving force behind any update. We have no idea if he is just speaking for himself or the whole clan and nor does Mod Matthe.

No need to apologize btw I don't expect you to agree with me as I can see we have different views about this. Yes it is good to have two opposites views as it won't be us making the changes but the developers and they need to view this objectively from all points of view. As for the state of the clan, that would need to be investigated, which would take time, as once again you could not just take the word of the guy who was asking for the clan leader to be removed.

=)

12-Dec-2013 16:40:56

Triscuits
Jan Member 2007

Triscuits

Posts: 11,478 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
All I can say is... If I didn't log in for 6 months and had no membership I wouldn't blame Jagex for removing me from my leadership in such cases this happens.. I think if a automated system is established and put into place it needs to be done in a delicate way cause being inactive due to real life issues and being inactive and just giving up and cancelling membership is two different things..
Hidden Elements/Scouter

I'm just a player who loves the game and the people in a great clan!!!

12-Dec-2013 17:16:42

ManddScott

ManddScott

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I believe this is a great idea. Our clan leader has not been on but once for a few minutes in the past 5 months. I hate to say it, but we need to be able to reach them to:

1) Find out if they are okay.
2) Find out if they plan to return and, if so, when.

Perhaps since Jagex has the email addresses for these inactive leaders, they could reach out to them on the clan's behalf, and ask them to get on so that the issue can be resolved nicely? The only way outside of RS that our clan can reach the leader is through Skype, and she has not logged into Skype in a very long time either. If, for some reason, the clan owner has not given Jagex their email address, perhaps this would be a good time to implement that need when a new clan owner/leader appears?

13-Dec-2013 21:29:58

Mattt

Mattt

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@Manddscott This is actually a really good idea - I'd also imagine it wouldn't be too hard to put in place?
Simply a generic "Your clan mates are looking for you!" email that could be set up to be automatically sent after a certain period of time, or we could have the option to get it sent to their email from a jagex email.

I think an email might just be enough for us, and probably others, to sort what we need.
Obviously this won't sort everyone's issues - not every clan leader will be available to come back on, and give up their ownership. But for us, this would work (assuming she actually checks said email address) - I'm fairly confident our leader would give up ownership knowing she's not active. @_MatttB

13-Dec-2013 21:36:39

DictatorKing
May Member 2008

DictatorKing

Posts: 1,144 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Possibly leaders could set an "heir" so when they go inactive for a certain period of time it could automatically switch to who the leader chose. Though I would support of any automated system.
Northern Allies

Clan Owner

2011-Present

13-Dec-2013 22:39:49

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