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Scret
Mar Member 2018

Scret

Posts: 25,434 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Pyrone said :
To me, it sounds like the players are just being as we already know most are - Just focusing on exp and nothing else. To account for this, Jagex is making changes to suit those players in an attempt to revitalize clans.

So, what's the point of it all? Why should clans be a key part of the exp game? If you feel forced to join a clan just to get that 2% exp boost (or 5% with capping) or however it ends up being decided, and not to actually be "Part of the clan", why even have clans in the first place? Might as well just go back to friend's chats only and pming your friends.

This is already how it is for a lot of high exp players anyway. Just joining clans because they'll have an ava out majority of the time and ignoring clan chat otherwise. That's not what clans are about.

If we (the avatar wardens) could, for example, call the avatar from anywhere in the game as a regular pet rather than having to hop worlds twice and run away from what we're doing to go to citadel to summon a new one, that accomplishes the same goal for giving everyone an exp boost and keeps the 6% boost in place for skilling together. This could only be possible if you've visited the citadel that week already as well for example, so it's not completely "free". Also letting us carry the avatar into places even if we don't get the buff from it - such as the runecrafting guild for vis wax, or pyramid plunder/runespan would be a nice QoL.



Well some people argue that clans were better off as friend chats, just a thought lol

I dont see the problem though, if people wanna join for the xp and are still a good member of the clan then thats totally fine by me i dont see the issue, its down to the leaders of each individual clan to decide if it is or not, if you dont like that sort of player in your clan then make that clear.

What clans are about is very subjective
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28-Jan-2017 06:53:33 - Last edited on 28-Jan-2017 06:54:51 by Scret

Subzero

Subzero

Posts: 23,266 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Scret said :
---You can still group skill without an avatar---

You are missing the point. And I notice that every time someone actually responds to you on this issue you don't acknowledge or address their response; you just repeat yourself.


I am well-aware that we do not need a Clan Avatar to skill together as a group.

It is highly ignorant and completely misguided to assume that we only play together because of the Avatar, and that we need the Avatar to play together.


There are in-fact many circumstances where the Clan Avatar isn't useful when playing together (such as bossing or minigames.) This is something I would like to see improved.


The point is that the Avatars encourage Clans to play together more often . You may not have the same view on the community as myself and others, but we believe that encouraging players to play together by providing an extra incentive/bonus is a great thing.


Giving every player their own personal Clan Avatar means there is no longer an extra incentive to play together, and therefore it will happen less .


Jagex run a community-focused game, and therefore I believe that in the interest of community spirit that they should improve the incentives rather than removing them.


If you truly believe that removing incentives and encouragement for Clans to play together on the same world is a good thing then we can agree to disagree; but personally I believe in the idea of "community" and "clan" spirit which encourages players to play together even more.
Subzero

Incursione 2100+/130+ Clan, Avatar access for all.

28-Jan-2017 14:59:00 - Last edited on 28-Jan-2017 16:34:10 by Subzero

Esploratore
Apr Member 2006

Esploratore

Posts: 1,675 Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Two benefits we'd likely receive from this change are:

1. It would eliminate spaghetti code that may be preventing other clan content being added.
2. It will enable clan members to receive the xp boost at times when there are no admin+ members online who can summon an avatar for everyone. (I currently see this fairly often in the evenings.)

I agree that the change is not really in keeping with the clan ethos that has been established through the years. The primary reason to support this change is if it will bring us more clan content that we'll all benefit from in the future.

The problem is that there always seem to be caveats with things like this from Jagex. We're told we're doing this or that and it "might" lead to other improvements down the road, but no promises. If no new clan content is forthcoming, it may not be worth it.

Edit: I thought of one other point. This proposed change would solve the dilemma of having no qualms about a clannie having avatar permissions while having some reservations about them having other permissions that admin+ are currently granted.

28-Jan-2017 17:21:34 - Last edited on 28-Jan-2017 17:42:03 by Esploratore

Scret
Mar Member 2018

Scret

Posts: 25,434 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Subzero said :
Scret said :
---You can still group skill without an avatar---

You are missing the point. And I notice that every time someone actually responds to you on this issue you don't acknowledge or address their response; you just repeat yourself.


I am well-aware that we do not need a Clan Avatar to skill together as a group.

It is highly ignorant and completely misguided to assume that we only play together because of the Avatar, and that we need the Avatar to play together.


There are in-fact many circumstances where the Clan Avatar isn't useful when playing together (such as bossing or minigames.) This is something I would like to see improved.


The point is that the Avatars encourage Clans to play together more often . You may not have the same view on the community as myself and others, but we believe that encouraging players to play together by providing an extra incentive/bonus is a great thing.


Giving every player their own personal Clan Avatar means there is no longer an extra incentive to play together, and therefore it will happen less .

If you truly believe that removing incentives and encouragement for Clans to play together on the same world is a good thing then we can agree to disagree; but personally I believe in the idea of "community" and "clan" spirit which encourages players to play together even more.

No i just dont think incentive through bonuses should be needed to encourage group activity just good content/gameplay.

Avatar was neither good content nor good gameplay it was just extra xp, an incentive maybe but not a good one.

I dont see why you need the incentive of extra xp from skilling together.
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29-Jan-2017 07:34:44 - Last edited on 29-Jan-2017 07:41:05 by Scret

Scret
Mar Member 2018

Scret

Posts: 25,434 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
CuddleBucket said :
Scret you keep using the word need so I don't think you read or understood his post.

The old "you dont agree with us so you didnt understand argument" good one.

If its not a question of need then theres no problem.

Maybe its because i can just think of better ways to encourage and reward group play instead of moar xpees pl0x
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SKILL SCHOOL
•´¨`»+
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29-Jan-2017 07:57:55 - Last edited on 29-Jan-2017 08:00:28 by Scret

Subzero

Subzero

Posts: 23,266 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Scret said :
The old "you dont agree with us so you didnt understand argument" good one.


Actually, we don't care that you don't agree with us.

What we care about is how our legitimate point is being degraded by you through repetition; ignorant to the actual argument we pose.

You haven't addressed any of the empirical arguments; simply repeated your own opinion with no empirical justification .


You can't keep saying your opinion without empirically explaining it; because it has little value in a discussion where we're trying to change content. Notice in my argument how I said "we should have it" and then I went on to write a huge point about why we should have it.

I look forward to discussing my position with those who don't agree with it, because much of the time by having two contrasting opinions you can arrive at a better solution.


Scret said :
If its not a question of need then theres no problem.


This is an absurd point and I can apply it to absolutely anything in the game.

Scret, we don't need Character icons on the forums - so why don't we remove them?

Scret, we don't need an Avatar at all - so why don't we remove it?

Scret, we don't actually need Clans in the game - so why don't we remove them?


Scret, we agree with you that we don't need the Avatar to Skill together.

But the point isn't that we need these things - the point is that we want them because they are good for the community of the game. This is what you don't seem to be understanding.
Subzero

Incursione 2100+/130+ Clan, Avatar access for all.

29-Jan-2017 13:09:37 - Last edited on 29-Jan-2017 13:09:57 by Subzero

Subzero

Subzero

Posts: 23,266 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Scret said :
Maybe its because i can just think of better ways to encourage and reward group play instead of moar xpees pl0x

Well instead of snubbing our attempts at keeping the Avatar similar to how it is (which actually rewards and encourages group play), why don't you post these fantastic ideas you have on how the Avatar can encourage group play?

This point of yours holds no weight. You can't just tell me you have brilliant ideas that you haven't told us, and therefore you are right. I could say exactly the same to you.


Scret said :
Avatar was neither good content nor good gameplay it was just extra xp, an incentive maybe but not a good one.

You undermine your own standpoint here.

Previously, you stated that we don't need the Avatar to skill together (which is true); but now you admit that the Avatar is an incentive.

It doesn't matter whether or not it's a good one - what matters is that it is one; one that we won't have if the Avatar receives these changes Mod Moltare has proposed.

We would rather see the current Avatar's incentive improved rather than deleted.

We do not want the Avatar to become another XP-whoring tool for absolutely everyone to use in their Solo play. We want it to remain a tool that benefits Clanmates most when they physically play together; because it encourages group play.
Subzero

Incursione 2100+/130+ Clan, Avatar access for all.

29-Jan-2017 13:11:44 - Last edited on 29-Jan-2017 13:15:23 by Subzero

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