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Aftermath: Dead and Buried

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H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

H 1 L D A

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"There is no lore whatsoever regarding Elvarg being anywhere outside of Crandor."

"Survivors from the island took several ships and fled to the friendly shores of Asgarnia, and formed a rag-tag refugee camp near the village of Rimmington. Elvarg, however, not content with the work she had already done, found and destroyed the refugee camp, killing all but three of the refugees, and leaving them to go their separate ways. The three (by name Melzar, Lozar and Thalzar), decided that nobody should ever have to suffer the way they had, and split the last navigational map to the isle (which was surrounded by deadly coral reefs) into three parts, taking a part with them when they went."
- Elvarg, RS3 Wiki.

"I suggest you read the lore on Elvarg."

---

Can you place her parents in Varrock for me? I tried to myself and didn't have proof that was where her home was located.
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24-Jul-2023 19:08:30

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

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^^
This is the lore on the survivors, not Elvarg. Elvarg was bound to its lair in Cranor for the last 30 years according to Dallas Jones in OSRS. Elvarg has no lore to Asgardia. OSRS has given us no additional lore of Elvarg and actually further confirmed there is no additional lore of it since it never left its lair the last 30 years.

Please tell us how Ellamaria's parents got to build their house in Elvarg's lair in Cranor and got it burned down. :D

24-Jul-2023 19:21:40 - Last edited on 24-Jul-2023 19:23:53 by Dilbert2001

H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

H 1 L D A

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You can't' have the refugee camp get razed to the ground without a dragon to raze it, and this excerpt identifies Elvarg by name. That would mean that there is relevant history that Elvarg once attacked Asgarnia.

The events of Elvarg's life from the time some bad adventurer gets killed within her lair and a much better one kills her are irrelevant, because Elvarg's legacy is older than that 30 year time period.

You tried to cherrypick Dallas Jones' assessment of Elvarg. Once he and the adventurer actually make it to Crandor, he says this.

Dallas Jones: Elvarg is very unusual in that she is one of the few dragons to live alone. Most of her kind live in large groups.
Dallas Jones: Not only that, she also displayed far greater aggression than most other dragons by directly attacking Crandor.
Player: But aren't all dragons aggressive?
Dallas Jones: Not like Elvarg was. Most dragons will only attack those who enter their territory. Elvarg strayed well outside of hers when she attacked the island.


Elvarg was no ordinary dragon. She left her lair to raze the land it was situated on, and in the earlier Dragon Slayer it is revealed she went even further than that and tailed a refugee party to the mainland.

---

My hypothesis is that Ellamaria's home was one of those on Crandor when Elvarg emerged and razed the surface of the island (which she did immediately after that adventurer who failed to kill her attacked her - making it a hard 30 years and aging quite appropriately with Ellamaria today).

She joins either an unmentioned refugee caravan, or the one with the three wizards and is wrongly presumed dead after the attack on Rimmington.

Please tell me how else her house caught fire, or how her parents are from Varrock?
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24-Jul-2023 19:45:44

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

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There is no refugee camp in Asgardia, and obviously no sight of dragon. I don't know where do you see the "refugee camp" in Asgardia.

Elvarg was a lonely homeboy in his lair the last 30 years before we killed him 22 years ago.

There is absolutely no lore about Ellamaria ever in Crandor. When we needed a map to get to Crandor 22 years ago, why would Ellamaria know about it 30 years ago? Crandor wasn't uninhibited before Dragon Slayer and remain uninhibited since Dragon Slayer 22 years ago.

24-Jul-2023 20:34:26

H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

H 1 L D A

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There isn't, because the attack on the camp near Rimmington happened roughly 30 years ago, shortly after Crandor itself was razed. I've already quoted my source at the top of this page, which is the wiki page for Elvarg.

After Elvarg returned to her lair,
following that attack
, she slept unimpeded until we come along to kill her.

There is no lore about Ellamaria ever on Crandor - yet. I suspect that will play a part of the next quest in the Misthalin storyline.

---

I'll fully admit that "Why wouldn't Ellamaria go exact her revenge on Elvarg herself" is the biggest plothole in my theory. It's also one that I would expect Jagex to ignore, or provide an excuse that may not necessarily pass the smell test.

We do know that Ellamaria was only a child when the attack on Crandor happened, so if she was placed there, she wouldn't be able to fight it off. From there, we know the three wizards who carried the map split it into three pieces, which were hidden in various locations with varying difficulty to access, and that you needed a vessel of Crandorian design to navigate the reef.

It's possible that Ellamaria, who eventually becomes queen and has less time to go out on adventures, wasn't able to decipher where those components were before the player was.

---

You're wrong in that Crandor wasn't inhabited before the events of Dragon Slayer. Her legacy as destroying an entire civilization on the island is the basis on which she presents a threat to the player in said quest. Every person the player meets discourages them from going and taking her on.

---

Here's another interesting thing to ponder - It's very possible for people to be descendants of the people Elvarg killed on the island. One such descendant? One Dallas Jones, who studies dragons because their father's death inspired them to.

There could be a parallel between Dallas Jones and Ellamaria.
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24-Jul-2023 20:57:44 - Last edited on 24-Jul-2023 20:58:24 by H 1 L D A

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

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Again, that's the lore of the 3 surviving wizards in Rimmington. Nobody else survived. There is no lore of Ellamaria, unless Ellamaria is also one of these 3 surviving wizards secretly. :D

Crandor was a marketplace, of course, with those ores we can mine, but obviously it is not a place to live in.

Dallas Jones didn't say a thing about Elvarg's attack 30 years ago. He couldn't have witnessed it anyway as he would be dead now, unless he is also secretly one of the 3 wizards in Rimmington. All Dallas Jones told us is Elvarg stayed in their lair following the attack 30 years ago. So conclusively, Elvarg had no lore since then, and nothing more than we knew since Dragon Slayer. It is hard to relate Elvarg to anything in Fort Forinthry or even Misthalin.

24-Jul-2023 21:18:17

H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

H 1 L D A

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First of all, you are yet again wrong about Crandor.

"Duke Horacio: Back in my father's day, Crandor was an important city-state. Politically, it was as important as Falador or Varrock and its ships traded with every port. But, one day, when I was little, all contact was lost. The trading ships and the diplomatic envoys just stopped coming. I remember my father being very scared. He posted lookouts on the roof to warn if the dragon was approaching. All the city rulers worried that Elvarg would devastate the whole continent."


Duke Horacio claims during the quest that Crandor was a city state that was just as important as the seats of power in Asgarnia and Misthalin. If it is equitable to Falador or Varrock in importance, it stands to reason that people could very much live on the island - a whole lot of them even.

Here's what Dallas Jones says about his father, who lived there...

Player: Tell me about yourself.
Dallas Jones: Not much to tell really. My name is Dallas Jones and I'm a researcher for the Varrock Museum. Many of the researchers have an area of expertise. Mine is dragons.
Player: Why dragons?
Dallas Jones: My father used to live on Crandor before it was destroyed. He was one of the many who were killed by Elvarg.
Dallas Jones: His death left me with a great interest in dragons and I've spent the last fifteen years trying to learn more about them.
Player: I see. Thanks, Dallas.


As far as tying in the Misthalin storyline to the Dragon Slayer storyline, I don't even have to do that, as Vorkath already is doing that for us - However, I am expecting a more meaningful connection to be made through Queen Ellamaria putting the dots together after we reach Ungael and it is formally revealed who created Vorkath.
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24-Jul-2023 23:18:42

H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

H 1 L D A

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This does come with the suggestion that the Champion's Guild guildmaster isn't exactly a reliable narrator when he claims that only three wizards survived the attack on the refugee camp. It's possible Ellamaria escaped but wasn't accounted for. After all, she would have no parents at this point, and we just recently found out she's the type to become a masked vigilante who hides her true identity from those around her.

She could have slipped through the cracks.
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Maxed
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24-Jul-2023 23:24:05

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

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Nothing did they say about NPC living in Crandor. It was important for political and trading purposes didn't meaning NPC lived there. There was no reason why civilians lived in a mining area with a dragon roaming, especially with a child. Neither did we see any sight of houses for human there, not even ruins.

"Draekeun
Vorkath
Skek Pthen

Dragon
Vorkath
Death Sorcery

Dragon
Vorkath
Necromancy"


We don't rule out Vorkath in future storyline, but the pink elephant in the roam is it is clearly related to the Necromancy storyline, not Fort Forinthry or Misthalin.

You can think whatever NPC is not a reliable source of lore, but there is really no point in discussion of any story telling content.

24-Jul-2023 23:29:18 - Last edited on 24-Jul-2023 23:40:45 by Dilbert2001

H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

H 1 L D A

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It really isn't my fault if -today- the only thing you see on Crandor is mining locations after a dragon burned the whole place down, and you can't get past it. The fact of the matter though, is that there are
very clearly
ruins of man-made buildings on Crandor as well, and that would indicate that people were there.

From there, we can't just say within reason that everyone that worked on Crandor commuted from other places and that nobody lived there, especially if it's basically another city such as Falador or Varrock that holds significant political importance.

And then, if people did live on Crandor, we can't just take the word of one guildmaster that "the was only three survivors" and leave it at that. That guildmaster wasn't on Crandor, and he likely wasn't a member of the refugee party either. We're lucky enough in that he gave us accurate enough information required to reconstruct the map to Crandor for ourselves. That may have been the only relevant information back when the quest was released.

If the guildmaster doesn't know that anyone else survived, obviously he wouldn't say so. He may not know that the queen of the city his guild his based in is actually the descendant of Crandorian resident who were killed on the island. That's probably not something Ellamaria goes and tells everyone about.

It doesn't mean that it can't be true. If we were talking about a completed storyline, at this point, you would be right. We're not talking about a completed storyline. Speaking of.

The Necromancy series, at least in part, is a part of the Misthalin storyline, via Mod Jack. Our understanding of Necromancy may be very important when dealing with Vorkath specifically, but it doesn't mean that Vorkath isn't relevant to the overall storyline at all.

You and I both know we have to go through the Necromancy series first, before this next quest even happens. Then, we come back, and it all matters.
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24-Jul-2023 23:47:35

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