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Aftermath: Dead and Buried

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H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

H 1 L D A

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"Elvarg isn't related to Vorkath - even in Old School."

False. Elvarg and Vorkath have the same Dragonkin creator, Zorgoth, in Old School RuneScape.

"Crandor is not related to Ungael - even in Old School."

False. Both dragons' lairs in OSRS have Dragonkin laboratories that are connected to them and were formerly used by Zorgoth. That would mean that both places hosted Dragonkin experiments, which during the Dragonkin Conflicts involved the creation of Dragons, particularly stronger variants of ordinary dragons. Speaking of which...

"Elvarg is an ordinary Green Dragon."

False. BOTH games' wiki pages emphasize that Elvarg is superior to other dragons of her species. In RuneScape 3, Elvarg's dragonfire can lower stats if the player isn't protecting against Magic. In Old School RuneScape, Elvarg can breathe her fire at the player from a distance.

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You -ARE- correct in that Dead and Buried doesn't address the fire that caused Queen Ellamaria's parents' deaths as
specifically
dragonfire - but with that dream sequence cutscene being used instead to focus on the reveal that Queen Ellamaria is the Raptor, it would make sense not to overload the player with information, especially if the upcoming quest is more about Vorkath and Ungael than this last one - which is what the end of the quest strongly suggests.

Bear in mind - "vorkath" is a Dragonkin word for "worthless" or "failure." Elvarg was slain by a human adventurer - which would mean Elvarg as a creation failed in their purpose ultimately, and with Necromancy, nothing is ever truly history anymore. ;)

I could see Jagex biting the bullet and having to put up with the decision to not have the Raptor kill Elvarg before we did when the next quest comes out. It's the kind of lore plothole that kinda exists.

It's not like the Raptor is a vengeful entity though - just stoic, kinda rude, and has a particular affinity for taking on mortal challenges.
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22-Jul-2023 23:58:03

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

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Guthix created numerous things on Gielinor, and the Elder Gods created even more in the Runesape Universe. Obviously, not everything a specific NPC created has to be related to the other over 9,000 things the same NPC created.

Please read the lore of Elvarg. He was the reason some people from Karamja migrated to Misthalin. Lore didn't say a thing about Elvarg in Misthalin, let alone dragonfire or whatnot. Lore also has it Ellamaria's parents were killed in a HOUSE fire, not dragon fire.

23-Jul-2023 16:56:18

H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

H 1 L D A

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Zorgoth is merely a Dragonkin. He’s not comparable to Guthix (let alone an Elder God) in anything save for lifespan when dealing with younger gods specifically. That’s also not mentioning that an Elder God’s creations are related to one another by having the same creator, no matter how numerous.

I have done my reading on Elvarg - and Ellamaria.

We know that Misthalin is weirdly more concerned about Elvarg attacking than Asgarnia, which is actually a place Elvarg has attacked.

We know that fires don’t just happen and have causes. The dreamscape focuses on Ellamaria’s home, so we don’t know where the house was located or what caused the house to combust. Ellamaria could be further revealed to be from somewhere outside Misthalin. (The Warrior’s Guild, for example, houses a statue of her, and is located in Asgarnia - which again, is a kingdom Elvarg has caused destruction in.)

Sure - Elvarg hasn’t been to Misthalin. She doesn’t need to have been in order to potentially hold relevance here.
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23-Jul-2023 23:53:37

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

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Whether an NPC is comparable to another NPC means absolutely nothing to whether what each of them created has anything to do with anything they created. Oldak is merely a cave goblin and "not comparable" to Zorgoth or Guhix, and he created many goblin things including Oldak's Coil, Goblin Teleport Orb and Goblin Lightbulbs. Don't tell us all those Oldak creations are remotely related to each other.

Elvarg has been in Karamja all along, according to Dragon Slayer 2:

"Dallas Jones: Thirty years ago, an adventurer descended into the caves beneath Crandor. There he discovered the dragon Elvarg.
Dallas Jones: Elvarg made short work of the adventurer. Once she was finished with him, she emerged from the caves and laid waste to the island.
Dallas Jones: For the next thirty years, Elvarg remained on Crandor until she was finally defeated, by you."


I don't know where you changed the topic to Asgarnia anyway. We are going to have Fort Forinthry Season 2 and Misthalin Storylines. Nothing about Asgarnia, and Ellamaria's parents were killed in a HOUSE FIRE. They lived in Varrock.

24-Jul-2023 02:34:20

H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

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Goblin teleport orbs, lightbulbs, and Oldak’s Coil ARE related to one another, as they all share the same inventor. Oldak.

Sure, Dallas is referring to Elvarg’s late history in DS2. Prior to the adventurer that fails to slay the dragon that Dallas mentions in your excerpt, Elvarg chases down the three wizards that separate the map used to reach Crandor in the FIRST Dragon Slayer quest and destroys their refugee camp near Rimmington (which is located in Asgarnia!)

It’s my guess, that Ellamaria is a survivor of Crandor’s destruction.

The dream ages Ella around seven to eleven years of age. If we use Old School’s 169 of the Fifth Age hard date, she would be somewhere in her late 30’s to mid 40’s when the Adventurer slays Elvarg, and maybe in her fifties at the time of Dead and Buried - making her an early veteran adventurer.

The razing of Crandor, using Dallas’ passage of time, more or less checks out with placing child Ellamaria there on the timeline.

Again, the next quest has us setting sail for Ungael, which is located in the Lunar Sea. If a Fort Forinthry/Misthalin storyline is allowed to venture that far, then it’s allowed to go to the next kingdom over to the west if it need to.
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24-Jul-2023 03:04:30

H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

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1. House fires, like all fires, don’t just “happen” - they have causes, whether they go investigated or not.

2. You can’t place Ellamaria’s parents in Varrock. I checked both Dead and Buried’s transcript and even the Varrock Census (which interestingly, doesn’t even list Ellamaria as a Varrock citizen…) - The absolute earliest we can place Ellamaria in Varrock is in the RuneScape novels, and in game, as an employee at the Blue Moon Inn.

3. If Ellamaria wasn’t even in Varrock in 160 (the last year of the Census) of the Fifth Age, then it’s possible she lived elsewhere on the mainland, let alone was always from somewhere else.
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24-Jul-2023 03:20:25

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

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The player invented Bacon and Cheescakes, by your definition Bacon and Cheescakes are all related, and why not apples and oranges too? :D

More importantly, Elvarg and Vorkath have no relationship in their adventures (or lack of in OSRS's cases), regardless they might have the same creator or same group of Dragonkin creators.

Unless the OSRS team lied about the lore of Elvarg, he was bound to Crandor the last 30 years since the adventurer with the map in the Dragon Slayer quest found him. So much for what you think about Asgardia and the HOUSE fire to Ellamaria's family in Varrock.

Elvarg is just a forgotten dragon even to Zorgoth in OSRS. Zorgoth doesn't even think such a weakling and failure should be named and he laughed about the OSRS players in even giving him a name. Evidently, even Zorgoth didn't have a purpose, let alone a plan, with Elvarg even in OSRS. Hard to think there is anything Elvarg is related to in RS3, which is already jam packed with over 10 years of episodic story telling content and unique and original IP.

24-Jul-2023 15:53:43

H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

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Firstly, you're wrong about bacon - as Eli, the NPC from the Bringing Home the Bacon quest - has already named it bacon by the time the player starts it. The player helps a chef in the Cook's Guild make cheesecake for the first time, so whether or not the player gets credit is debatable in that case. Which means, the two foods are not related to one another by having the same creator as Elvarg and Vorkath are. (They both are, notably, related to one another by both being food items, just as apples and oranges are despite the famous adage.)

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It's actually funny you try to say "lack thereof" about Elvarg's history, because all Old School does is provide additional history for Elvarg through DS2. The already established history that I've referenced twice at least already, in which Elvarg razes Crandor and tails the refugees from the island to Rimmington, is still applicable in OSRS, and is part of the only known history in RS3. I'm not "inventing" any new events by suggesting Ellamaria's home was a casualty in one of those two attacks.

I'm suggesting she was either on Crandor, or in a home too near to that refugee camp, and that Elvarg's the cause of her home burning down, which you still have not posited a provable alternative cause for in order to explain the fire away as merely coincidental.

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Zorgoth also thinks Vorkath is worthless, and Jagex is bending their backs once again to bring him into the RS3 story.

The way it's presented, Elvarg is created and seen as a prototype for stronger dragons, as she's a genetically enhanced version of the weakest chromatic dragon there is. She's a success, but that doesn't mean much other than "this enhancement could work on stronger dragons" - which is what the player discovers in Dragon Slayer 2 with Vorkath and later Galvek.

Elvarg also caused destruction on humanity, which was the purpose of making dragons in the Dragonkin Conflicts anyway, even if it wasn't to Zorgoth's liking. That matters.
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24-Jul-2023 18:33:51

H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

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It's not hard at all to imagine Elvarg has significance yet in RS3.

Elvarg is a part of Ellamaria's and the Raptors' origin story because Ellamaria was from Crandor, and the dragon burned her house down, killing her parents. She's too young to fight back at that time, so she joins some refugees on their way to the mainland, then makes her way even further to Misthalin.

There, she tells people from Lumbridge to Edgeville of the threat the Dragon possesses, all the while chasing the pursuits of an adventurer and strong warrior. Eventually, she takes up a job at the Blue Moon Inn to make ends and befriends Bianca.

The events she's involved in the RuneScape novels take place, allowing her to meet one King Roald Remanis III.

Roald then repeatedly visits Ellamaria, who charms him by telling things how they are. They fall in love. He weds her, and she brings Bianca into the royal court as a chef.

Due to that love and her own troubled past, Ellamaria desires a nice Garden of Tranquility - and hires another adventurer to scour all of Gielinor for the required plants.

Much later, as the Raptor, she bumps into the same adventurer in Rimmington, near the location of Elvarg's attack on the mainland, to deal with an even bigger beast.

That same adventurer would go on to accomplish much, and eventually would step up to helm Fort Forinthry - but they kinda struggle to get it established. Ellamaria survives a deathly good dinner there, then as the Raptor offers routine services to the new Duchess while discovering a Mahjarrat necromancer who was previously fixated on taking over Misthalin once before is involved.

In pursuit of this Mahjarrat, they try to enter a Dragonkin crypt, then need to enter her own dream, where the adventurer discovers her secret. Then, they return to said crypt to discover Ungael's location, finally preparing to sail there in the next episode.

See? Easy.
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Maxed
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24-Jul-2023 18:49:39

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

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Names don't mean a thing, bacon or cheesecake, Elvarg or just a no name weak green dragon.

There is no lore whatsoecer regarding Elvarg anywhere else outside Crandor. We knew that part in the Dragon Slayer quest already. OSRS didn't add a thing. Actually they just told us Crandor was in his lair the last 30 years, completely shutting down any claim it has any lore of it anywhere else, not Asgardia, and not Varrock where Ellamaria and their parents lived.

We killed Elvarg long ago in 2001. Nobody even remembers him, not even Zorgoth in OSRS.

24-Jul-2023 19:02:20

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