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Aftermath: Dead and Buried

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Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

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RS3 and OSRS as well as other cancelled, existing, and future Runescape franchise games may share the same lore before the birth of the Player. This doesn't mean all those shared content will behave exactly the same.

Zuk in RS3 is obviously not the Inferno bound Zuk in OSRS. Zuk in RS3 is a smaller part of the epic EGW saga. No saying there won't be Vorkath in RS3, but like Zuk, the existence and our future adventure with the RS3 Vorkath doesn't have to be, and most likely, won't be the same as we have in the Ungael bound OSRS Vorkath.

Like Zuk is a smaller part of the epic Elder God threats, Vorkath can be a smaller part of the epic Necromancy world changing saga. There is absolutely no saying Vorkath has to be related to Fort Forinthry in RS3. Dragon Slayer 2 in OSRS starts in Feldip Hills, but obviously Vorkath is not related to Feldip Hills. The fact is very conclusive.

Moia clearly has beaten the flesh out of Zemouregal and more than likely has controlled him. Otherwise, please tell us how did Zemouregal know of any ancient Dragonkin lore and how did he evade the control of the Black Hand.

18-Jul-2023 20:32:49

Vin362
Jul Member 2014

Vin362

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While the Raptor's identity reveal comes off as kind of a Batman trope its not like the raptor had any major lore before this quest, all the other signature heroes had the stories told the Raptor of anything just came off as being too much of a mystery and kind of an edgelord.


If I had one complaint its the fact the quest threw in Dragonkin after the last few elder god quests had them I thought they would take step back from, of course Zemouregal attacking the Varrock again kind of seems weird given we defeated him before.
A Zarosian Adventure

18-Jul-2023 21:03:39

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

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^^
There are actually plenty of lore of the Raptor, most noticeably Song from the Depth and EGW.

Don't forget the visual, living and breathing lore instead of the written stories like Raptor's Rampage, POF, Raptor's Chest of Slaying. The Raptor was also the face of the RS3 Twitch icon for years.

There has been no lore of the Energizer Bunny, but I think more consumers in the world will agree with me they have seen a lot of visual lore of the Bunny for half a century, and that visual lore is Still Going... Same effects can be achieved with The Raptor. A picture is worth a thousand words, maybe a musical note too. Audio-visual lore can be more powerful than written lore. We don't need a developer blog and a livestream every week on The Raptor.

As for the Dragonkin part, I think they are the major missing link of the Necromancy storyline. We are going to see Dragonkin lore left and right with Necromancy and beyond, as they were the rulers of the First Age Gielinor. Dragonkin are not here just for Fort Forinthry but to transfer the story to the affairs that humans can manage in the Fort to the epic world saving heroic of the Underworld Guardian.

18-Jul-2023 21:28:01 - Last edited on 18-Jul-2023 21:48:33 by Dilbert2001

H 1 L D A
Apr Member 2020

H 1 L D A

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Sure, it’s possible Ungael isn’t the location of the fight in RS3 - (although by that token, it’s possible Zemouregal could move the dragon to Fort Forinthry, which would definitely make it a Fort quest.) - but before Dead and Buried it was possible Vorkath itself was located in the Dragonkin Crypt. It’s actually more of a testament that Ungael’s lore now involves a totally separate crypt in the low eastern Wilderness that features a large map to it.

Dragon Slayer II only deals with the Myth’s Guild (the location in Feldip Hills) in the same way any of the other “adventuring guild quests” do. It’s the start and end of a “prove your worth” story. Of course the Guild itself isn’t related to the actual quest content. That doesn’t mean that neutralizing Zemouregal - who is still responsible for leading an attack on the Fort, which is where the player’s investment in pursuing Zemouregal comes from- doesn’t impact the Fort storyline just because his real motive was to resurrect Vorkath. You do the guild quests to join the respective guild. You fight off the meddling Mahjarrat to ensure the security of Fort Forinthry.

The Raptor, as it turns out, has a significant interest in protecting Misthalin after all - and now we know why they were slightly animated about it in Unwelcome Guests. They also want to stop Zemouregal.

I’ve never said RS3 was getting Dragon Slayer II, but the story, as with many stories between the two games, is lining up in similar manners with only marginal differences that depend on if time is frozen in the year 159 of the Fifth Age, or flowing.

As for Moia, she certainly did put Zemouregal in his place……. where it really hurts. She reverted the effects of the final Rejuvenation, making him revert to skeletal form and probably dramatically shortening his life-span. He still has his own agency until the game says otherwise.
Quest Cape Owner since 2021

Maxed
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18-Jul-2023 21:33:42

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

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Whether we see Vorkath in Fort Forinthry or other places outside Unageal is insignificant to my point, which is Fort Forinthry will not be the reason of their future involvement (or lack of), changing the world through Necromancy and beyond is.

I doubt Zemouregal is still the same Zemouregal after Moia kicked his butt... and Moia is not the same Moia before the Halloween event years ago... just like Bilrach, the Odd Old Man, The Ambassador, The Magister, Amascut among plenty of others who are corrupted or succumbed to unknown diseases/madness are not what they were before they were cursed by the Black Stone.

18-Jul-2023 21:45:01

Tomato 56789
Apr Member 2022

Tomato 56789

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@Dilbert2001

Sorry, but you are wrong.

It's been stated in-game multiple times mahjarrat don't have a soul or afterlife. When we first quested with Trindine the gall in tzhaar area even freaked out about the "soulless lady". I forget which quest but it was stated mahjarrat don't have an afterlife due to the lack of a soul.

They revert to skeletal when low on energy. The hibernation comes when they are critically low. Jhallan missed a ritual, so by the time of the last one he only had enough energy to sleep. The others were skeletal as they couldn't maintain their flesh BUT they had enough energy left to still function. That is also why when we freed Enahkra that we and Akthankos decided to delay their battle until the ritual in the north. Both were too weak to put up a fight without causing their own demise in the long run / weakening themselves enough that they'd be a candidate for the sacrifice.

Azzanadra was able to miss many rituals because he was incredibly powerful / arguably the most powerful mahjarrat. Jhallan wasn't as lucky. Hazeel was able to miss rituals because he was in stasis. Ditto Trindine, though I'd argue she was also able to miss many rituals because she's Azzanadra's daughter so it's highly probably she inherited much of his might. Bilrach was able to miss rituals because of energies he acquired in Daemonheim and the fact he sacrificed the last chelon-mah.

Moia may have taken what was left of Bilrach's consciousness. Personally I think he's dead, but only the player experienced the strange power event which could suggest that there is some part of him still in existence. Zemouregal she simply humiliated by weakening him to the point he was skeletal, but not to the point he needed to go into hibernation
Casual legacy trash of 19 years in RS, author of 6 books irl

18-Jul-2023 21:47:18

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

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^^
I have already stated my point, whether you agree or not. Let's go back to the most important point: regardless you think Zemouregal is dead or not, he gets his butt kicked badly already and is not being mind controlled to do the world changing things for the final boss.

18-Jul-2023 21:52:24

Tomato 56789
Apr Member 2022

Tomato 56789

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As H I L D A said, Azzanadra was specific to Zarosians. His comment may not even include mahjarrat. It's likely he's referring to Zarosians who have souls. Alternatively, it's possible Zaros does something to preserve his mahjarrat followers after they die - a luxury the Zamorakian and neutral mahjarrat don't enjoy.

Erebus isn't an afterlife. It's a different reality, it's kind of like anti-matter / an anti-world, or if you're into superheros it's like the negative speed force from Flash. Nobody in our understanding of existence is supposed to be able to even survive Erebus which is why the elder gods even fear it. It's also why many believe Zaros kind of committed suicide when he threw himself into it, though myself and other Zarosians believe he figured out a way to survive being there longer than a few minutes. Jagex is done with the god stories though...and since Zaros and Seren are the highest tier of non-elder gods it wouldn't be possible to completely kill them. Gods also lack souls - which is why Bandos and Guthix are GONE, and why Armadyl laments to us that he will never see his husbands again as they are dead but if he dies rather than joining them in the afterlife he will just be gone. Jagex got rid of Seren by keeping her with her weak, eternally infantile aunts and Zaros by him going somewhere where nobody is known to be able to leave even if they survive. It leaves the door open for the opportunity to revisit both characters should Jagex decide to but it's damning enough that the players have no valid room to expect it.
Casual legacy trash of 19 years in RS, author of 6 books irl

18-Jul-2023 21:55:31

Tomato 56789
Apr Member 2022

Tomato 56789

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Original message details are unavailable.
^^
I have already stated my point, whether you agree or not. Let's go back to the most important point: regardless you think Zemouregal is dead or not, he gets his butt kicked badly already and is not being mind controlled to do the world changing things for the final boss.

It's not a matter of opinion or agreement / disagreement. It's confirmed mahjarrat don't have souls or an afterlife lol.

Yes, he got his butt kicked. He was weakened to his pre-ritual state. Zemouregal, like him or not, is a rather powerful mahjarrat. Not as much as Azzanadra or Bilrach but he's up there as I'm not sure he ever missed the ritual or wasted his powers out. Jhallan used to be kind of powerful but didn't grow his strength, so when he fell to average and missed a ritual he was too weak to even function - ergo the hibernation. Zemouregal never allowed himself to become THAT burned out. Moia most likely could have killed him...I think she just chose humiliation. Zemouregal has the biggest ego of the living mahjarrat, and now he is the only one who is forced into his skeletal form.
Casual legacy trash of 19 years in RS, author of 6 books irl

18-Jul-2023 21:59:41

Dilbert2001
Jun Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 30,176 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Mahjarrat, and rituals or not, are nothing to the one who controlled them. When even the Elder God Mah had no defence against it, Mahjarrat and rituals make no difference.

To save Gielinor from the Black Stone, we will need prehistoric knowledge we can't find even from 2nd and 3rd Ages Archaeology dirt and artifacts. We will need First Age knowledge of the ancient, and that means mostly Dragonkin. That's why the story is turning to the Dragonkin as we approach Necromancy and beyond.

18-Jul-2023 22:05:00 - Last edited on 18-Jul-2023 22:09:56 by Dilbert2001

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