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Saradomin, Seren, or Armadyl?

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Padomenes

Padomenes

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But will have to get more sources, anybody willing to ask a mod how Saradomin's society is run internally or what he would want things to be run as? Would internal predatory behavior amongst his followers be allowed or not?

If Saradomin's goal is written as to create a world where 'Nice people always finish first'(Which makes him similar to characters like 'Granas'), while getting rid of anything that obstructs that vision/type of world or protecting the nice/virtuous people from that.

Whereas in Zaros's empire during the 2nd age, or maybe Zamorak and Bandos's it is 'Nice people finish last' kind of world.

02-Sep-2017 10:14:44 - Last edited on 02-Sep-2017 10:18:44 by Padomenes

Padomenes

Padomenes

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Giras said :
Saradomin lies and twists the truth a whole damn lot. Even he has never said that he would eliminate all survival woes and prevent predatory practices. Even a Saradominist state controlled by his handpicked illuminati like Asgarnia has deplorable merchants like Rolo the Stout exploiting the people's misery for profits. Asgarnia's official state is about as Saradominist as Saradominist gets, and even it hasn't become the utopia you claim he represents.
Isn't Rolo the Stout in Taverly though which is controlled by the Burthrope Guard over Falador and is primarily a Guthixian area? If you go to Falador in worst case scenario everything is likely managed/owned by Saradomin or the temple knights including the banks, but its not to the degree like in Varrock(Which isn't officially but acts the most 'Zarosian' in values)?

Falador owns Rimmington and Port Sarim currently, but Taverly/Burthrope belong to the Burthope Guards and Guthixians/Godless?

02-Sep-2017 14:28:54 - Last edited on 02-Sep-2017 14:57:28 by Padomenes

Sepulchre
Dec Member 2020

Sepulchre

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Summerleaf said :
Sepulchre said :


Seren is a nice goddess. She genuinely cares for all her followers, and has deep emotional ties with any she sees as a friend. Her main problem is that she's prone to... psychosis? She nearly killed us, and the Mahjarrat, and Zamorak on Freneskae, her split self nearly shook Prifddinas apart when we mention Sliske or Zamorak. Also, remember the Dark Lord? Yeah I'll not take my chances there.



Not psychosis. I'd say diagnosis of type of anxiety disorder along with an emotional disorder, both with very specific triggers. They're both comorbid in alot of places, so it would make sense.
She's off her bloody rocker. Is that better, Doctor Elf?

I have anxiety, and depression, and OCD, and ADHD. I know what is what. Thanks.
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02-Sep-2017 16:17:12

Raleirosen

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Sepulchre said :
Summerleaf said :
Sepulchre said :
Seren is a nice goddess. She genuinely cares for all her followers, and has deep emotional ties with any she sees as a friend. Her main problem is that she's prone to... psychosis? She nearly killed us, and the Mahjarrat, and Zamorak on Freneskae, her split self nearly shook Prifddinas apart when we mention Sliske or Zamorak. Also, remember the Dark Lord? Yeah I'll not take my chances there.
Not psychosis. I'd say diagnosis of type of anxiety disorder along with an emotional disorder, both with very specific triggers. They're both comorbid in alot of places, so it would make sense.
She's off her bloody rocker. Is that better, Doctor Elf?

I have anxiety, and depression, and OCD, and ADHD. I know what is what. Thanks.
lol
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02-Sep-2017 19:55:05 - Last edited on 02-Sep-2017 19:55:17 by Raleirosen

Raleirosen

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Padomenes said :
Its about creating a world where its safe to be truely good, peaceful/harmonious or virtuous long-term. With absolutely no risk of disharmony/predatory minded people ever disrupting that or destroying it in core values. "Nice people always finish first" is Saradomin's goal.
How can that be his goal when he's both the supreme leader and engaging in not-so-nice activities?
Patrolling Lore FC almost makes you wish for a Great Revision.

02-Sep-2017 19:57:56

Lego Miester
Nov Member 2023

Lego Miester

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They're all people more than anything, with their own flaws.

Saradomin cares about his people, but doesn't tend to extend that to anyone else, and has a nasty habit of justifying cruel actions to himself. The ends justify the means, such as threats and force.

Armadyl treats his followers more like friends than minions and strives for peace, but is a complete hypocrite about both of those when it suits him. Bandos was the only person to call him out on this, and we saw what that got him.

Seren would give everything to protect her elves, yet her following her emotional impulses lead to her becoming her very own peoples' worst enemy. In trying to help Mah, she was responsible for the cruel, cannibalistic warrior race we now know as the Mahjarrat.
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03-Sep-2017 00:54:30 - Last edited on 03-Sep-2017 00:56:20 by Lego Miester

Jaekob Caed
Apr Member 2011

Jaekob Caed

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Padomenes said :
snip


I'd say it's, as I mentioned earlier, a light-aligned Machiavellian perspective where the ends justify the means. His goals to eliminate the things that cause disorder and darkness and to give people a chance to live peacefully? Great ends that some argue would justify whatever means he takes to get there.

The problem is that when you approach things from that perspective, if you're not 100% in control of yourself (Saradomin seems to have a bit of a temper), you'll end up trying to justify any of your actions because you have the right intentions. If you want to approach an "ends justify the means" perspective, then you need to make sure you can control your actions and only resort to questionable means when absolutely necessary to achieve your ends. Otherwise, you can very easily slip into the territory of immoral actions and people will come to view you more as a selfish tyrant than a noble hero.

It's mostly about others' perception of you. You can have the noblest of goals but if your people see you as a selfish, evil tyrant, you're not going to be able to get too far. Again referencing Machiavelli, as he says, it's best to be loved and feared but when you can't achieve both, it's safer to be feared rather than loved. However, that fear mustn't inspire hatred. So long as your followers fear you and love you, or at least fear and respect you, they will follow you to the grave and back. But if you fall from their good graces and they start to hate you, you'll have a much harder time regaining their trust.

That's the primary reason I can't really support Saradomin in totality. He has good intentions but he doesn't fully understand that he doesn't really inspire fear without hatred, at least from many.
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03-Sep-2017 06:17:06

CD_Paladin_C

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Lego Miester said :

Saradomin cares about his people,


No he doesn't. There's a reason why we have #Saradoministlivesdontmatter. Saradomin leaves his followers to die all the time. Remember the battle for falador? He could've easily stopped it, he was a tier above Zamorak at the time (Hell 2 if Zamorak was still monkey cabbage tier at the time) and could've stepped in and ended it as soon as it started. Hell, you can go right now and kill
the one true god
's followers right in front of him with zero reaction.

Saradomin doesn't give two shits about his followers. He's after power and his own selfish desires.
"Your god's dead next time he's in a world event. "
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#StopSaradomin

03-Sep-2017 22:28:53

Padomenes

Padomenes

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CD_Paladin_C said :
Billion trillion million rillions gazillion tens of millions my faction is 100% perfect
Reminds me of:



Hmm have you tried killing Armadyl or Zamorak's followers right now infront of them and seen the reaction?

03-Sep-2017 23:34:32 - Last edited on 03-Sep-2017 23:46:29 by Padomenes

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