RuneScape Forum Archive | Your antithesis god?

Nov

2023

Lego Miester

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Ironically I'm going to have to say

Bandos.

I say ironically because I sided with him in WE2 and still have serious respect for the guy's blunt honesty and being the only god to not parade himself around as "the good guy" but actually having the stones to call his philosophy "a cruel truth."

But ultimately the guy was also highly destructive , wanting nothing more than to watch the world burn in the fires of war. Not to uplift anyone in particular, but just because he thought that was the best we can expect of mortals or gods. He was a terrible person with some very good points.

Meanwhile, on roughly the same tier ,

Armadyl

. He puffed his feathers up about justice and law, but ultimately showed his true colors as he desecrated his foe's body, stole his weapon and lead out a bloodcurdling war cry of victory. Wouldn't Bandos have done the same thing? Yes, yes he would have, and that's the problem.

So you know what? I change my mind.

Armadyl

is my antithesis god. That is an impressive accomplishment to outdo Bandos, but I can't stand liars and hypocrites.

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”

-C.S. Lewis Headcanon Haven, where everything is made up and the points don't matter.
OSRS Lore: Xeric
Slepe Tight - Slepe Lore

31-Oct-2016 19:14:33 - Last edited on 31-Oct-2016 19:23:44 by Lego Miester

Nov

2023

Lego Miester

Posts: 35,339 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

In contrast, some of Bandos's last words:

Player: What was [Bandos] like in the final days?

Zarador: When it became clear that we were losing the war, he began to speak to me as he had not before. He spoke of Yu'biusk, and that he regretted what he saw as his mistakes there. I assured him that Yu'biusk was his to do with as he pleased. He spoke of the people of Yu'biusk, and he pondered what he had done to them. I assured him that we were proud and joyous to serve at his feet once more, no matter what came. He spoke of the doom of his own people, long ago. I assured him that their role in history had been as the crucible in which he was forged, for which we were ever thankful. Headcanon Haven, where everything is made up and the points don't matter.
OSRS Lore: Xeric
Slepe Tight - Slepe Lore

31-Oct-2016 19:20:37

Rondstat

Posts: 2,770 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I don't have any god that's the 'devil' to me, and I think it's a pretty absurd position to take - all thinking gods supposedly have their positives and negatives.

But, if it's a god I see as an antagonist - probably Jas. She spawns civilizations for dinner and has genocide for breakfast. She doesn't clean up her toys, then obliterates anyone who plays with 'em. All creation is just a means to feed herself and her progeny.

No other choice really makes sense.

31-Oct-2016 19:58:42

Oct

2004

An Aviansie

Posts: 12,278 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

I'd say Godless, but since they don't have a god, Zamorak.

No other god, even if you want to assume the absolute worst of them, cursed an entire race to be their mindless drones to fight in wars he started for eternity, destroyed an entire continent in a hissy fit, nearly extincted an entire race in the same hissy fit that destroyed the continent, or betrayed even half as many as Zamorak did.

Zamorak's goals have all been largely the same: Get him more power, kill the traitors, kill the weak, kill the cowards, kill the enemies, kill the friends (just to make sure they stay in line), oh, and be sure to burn things randomly anyway. Don't forget to act smugly afterwards, regardless of the result, and act like you helped.

And yet, his sycophants keep chanting that he's the good guy. He's the guy who is trying to end the tyranny of the other gods (which doesn't even exist, by the way.) He's no worse than the other gods, who actually do mean well. If that's true, then why didn't Saradomin create a wasteland after throwing a hissy fit? Seren? Zaros? The only god who has done anything on a similar level would be Bandos, who destroyed Yu'Biusk with his extreme lust for war.

At this point, even Xau-Tak seems friendly in comparison.

Armadylean lorebird

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31-Oct-2016 22:37:42

Hazeel

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An Aviansie said :
No other god, even if you want to assume the absolute worst of them, cursed an entire race to be their mindless drones to fight in wars he started for eternity,

Cursed? ...Well you're right there.

An Aviansie said :
destroyed an entire continent

Tumeken did. Saradomin destroyed an entire world. Theory is Armadyl did the same (but that is just a theory, so I won't get deep into it). Bandos destroyed a world.

An Aviansie said :
nearly extincted an entire race

Saradomin (Centuars, Icyene). Armadyl (Aviansie and you can add some threats to do the same to the Bandosains). Bandos (Ourgs and several others). Should I add bonus points for all four factions committing genocide on the Zarosians--at least in that case Zamorak wasn't there.

An Aviansie said :
or betrayed even half as many as Zamorak did.

Well he betrayed Zaros...Saradomin betrayed Zamorak and Armadyl. Armadyl returned the favor. Bandos betrayed everyone several times.

An Aviansie said :
If that's true, then why didn't Saradomin create a wasteland after throwing a hissy fit?

Good point. Let's ask Guthix.

Not defending Zamorak BTW...but this is par for the course at this point. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

31-Oct-2016 23:45:49 - Last edited on 31-Oct-2016 23:46:50 by Hazeel

Chaos Lupus

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@ Aviansie

Most of your criticisms apply to other gods as well.

For one, Zamorak did not intend for the chaos dwarves to become what they are, only to grant them power. You can blame him for acting ignorantly in a desperate situation, but Seren did the same thing to the elves. Although in that case, she then tortured them into submission and left many to fates worse than the chaos dwarves. And so long as we're on the topic of the consequences of ignorance, Armadyl was basically manipulated into joining a war that had nothing to do with him, driving his own people to the brink of extinction in the process.

Of course Zamorak wants more power, he was raised in a society run by the most powerful individuals. The same can't be said of most of the other major gods, and yet you'd still be hard-pressed to find one who doesn't want more power than they already have. Armadyl is the exception, though that's more of a flaw than anything, as he's expressed his willingness to resort to violence when he deems it necessary, making the act of foregoing power counter-productive and only serves to put his people at even further risk. I am curious, though, when has Zamorak killed his friends/allies in order to keep them in line? If you're referring to the robes of subjugation, those betraying him clearly weren't his friends. After all, Zamorak wants others to be free to succeed as well. As stated by Mod Osborne, his philosophy is one of the few to benefit the follower more than the god.

Continued...

The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

01-Nov-2016 00:13:09 - Last edited on 01-Nov-2016 00:14:27 by Chaos Lupus

Chaos Lupus

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Now, about the God Wars. Zamorak opened the vacuum that made them possible, and he deserves his share of the blame for the ensuing violence, but don't omit fault to the other gods. Zaros was no friend of theirs, his defeat was certainly in their best interests. It wasn't long before they jumped at the opportunities presented by his absence. Zamorak wasn't even on Gielinor for the first nineteen years of the conflict. And it takes more than one faction for a war to last four-thousand years.

You can argue that Zamorak himself is a tyrant, there’s a case to be made there, but it’s simply not true to claim that the tyranny of the other gods is non-existent. Zaros had twelve legions of demons magically bound to his will, and his Empire was in the process of conquering the Menaphites prior to Tumeken’s sacrifice. Saradomin arrived on Naragun uninvited, conquered their land, and ended up fighting in a God War that drove the naragi to extinction. He also mutilated Garlandia and left her for dead because she publically embarrassed him. Bandos literally conquered his entire home world, allowed everyone on it to die for his own personal gain, and then did the same thing all over again on Yu’Biusk, only this time out of frustration and boredom. Seren, as previously mentioned, tortured her own followers into submission and left an entire clan to a fate worse than death. In what way is this not tyranny?

Continued...

The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

01-Nov-2016 00:13:28 - Last edited on 01-Nov-2016 00:14:42 by Chaos Lupus

Chaos Lupus

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Furthermore, you speak of Zamorak’s actions in Forinthry as if they were a bad thing, to which I could not disagree more. That was the most selfless thing that someone in that position could have done, both in intent and result. As was evident in the cutscene in DAT, Zamorak thought that all of the gods present, himself included, would be killed by the blast. He was effectively committing suicide in order to prevent the tyranny of the other gods from taking hold. The blast killed a large number of people, yes, but the vast majority were his enemies. It also resulted in the awakening of Guthix and subsequent establishment of the Edicts. The alternative was to allow for the God Wars to continue on for an unknown number of centuries as Bandos and Saradomin fought over the stone. There are plenty of things to fault Zamorak for, but Forinthry is not one of them.

The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

01-Nov-2016 00:13:35 - Last edited on 01-Nov-2016 00:14:51 by Chaos Lupus

Hazeel

Posts: 6,735 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile

@Chaos Lupus

Now to be fair, I think they recently confirmed in a Q&A that Zamorak did intend to enslave the Dwarves. I guess power was his way of rewarding them for it. *shrug* Can't say I fully support it, but then again I have a servant in my PoH that I brainwashed because I was too cheap to pay my former butler. I also buy slaves from ports and send them to make me money or die on a regular basis. And the only reason I haven't done it on a larger scale is because I lack the capacity to store all of those slaves. ...So maybe it's not my place to judge. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

01-Nov-2016 00:40:24 - Last edited on 01-Nov-2016 00:41:14 by Hazeel

Chaos Lupus

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Hazeel said :
@Chaos Lupus

Now to be fair, I think they recently confirmed in a Q&A that Zamorak did intend to enslave the Dwarves. I guess power was his way of rewarding them for it. *shrug* Can't say I fully support it, but then again I have a servant in my PoH that I brainwashed because I was too cheap to pay my former butler. I also buy slaves from ports and send them to make me money or die on a regular basis. And the only reason I haven't done it on a larger scale is because I lack the capacity to store all of those slaves. ...So maybe it's not my place to judge.

I read the opposite from a mod quote, which aligns with what Zamorak says in-game (not that he wouldn't lie if it was beneficial for him). I'll try to find it.

The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

01-Nov-2016 00:59:48

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Your antithesis god?