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Saradomin and Guthix*spoilers*

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LadyScalpel
Oct Member 2021

LadyScalpel

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Hguoh said :
LadyScalpel said :
They couldn't have had philosophical conversetions before Guthix banished the gods either.

Why not? He had time to chat with Bandos before banishing him.

Actually because the events he describes in the "World Gate" memory happened before the god wars. They happened at the time when Guthix was opening portals with the blade in the first age.

So, when he made a mistake, broke the blade and pests swarmed, he remembered something Saradomin had told him. This happened in the first age. Before that he only saw Saradomin from afar. The Blue Giant that devastated his home plane.

And now suddenly we discover that Guthix talked to Saradomin and even finds some value in Saradomin's words and actions? This makes no sense at all to put it mildly.

15-Jan-2017 02:50:29 - Last edited on 15-Jan-2017 03:17:03 by LadyScalpel

Padomenes

Padomenes

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CD_Paladin_C said :
^
What did Saradomin prepare the Naragi for? Genocide, causes that's what happened.

Btw I just realized that we're in week 2 of 2017, we're not starting off this year on a good foot for Saradomin lore :^( How is it even "genocide" if they weren't driven to extinction by Saradomin intentionally? He just razed a city, plenty survived and the rest died off from the wars that followed. So not the extinction of the Naragi was not Saradomin's fault, you think he could have just killed both Skargorath and Tuska easily single handedly? He even TRIED to make up for it after realizing it was wrong.

Somehow Saradomin has magical powers to make the Naragi all become extinct and laughed plus enjoyed it all according to you. Extinction = "Genocide". The remaining ones like Aagi that remained were not killed off by Saradomin but died from the collateral damage or the other gods' forces. Where is the evidence that Saradomin intended to kill every single 980 gazillion "naragi"?

Guthix himself acknowledged Saradomin had a point in the memory. Sorry but you will never have a 100% perfect "god", look forward to your disappointment when the others including your faction continue to get more negative lore. Going godless anytime soon?

You sound like the kind of person who would pull a knife out at a person for wearing a Saradomin shirt at a runefest.

15-Jan-2017 04:53:16 - Last edited on 15-Jan-2017 06:01:59 by Padomenes

Hguoh

Hguoh

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LadyScalpel said :
Hguoh said :
LadyScalpel said :
They couldn't have had philosophical conversetions before Guthix banished the gods either.

Why not? He had time to chat with Bandos before banishing him.

Actually because the events he describes in the "World Gate" memory happened before the god wars. They happened at the time when Guthix was opening portals with the blade in the first age.

So, when he made a mistake, broke the blade and pests swarmed, he remembered something Saradomin had told him. This happened in the first age. Before that he only saw Saradomin from afar. The Blue Giant that devastated his home plane.

And now suddenly we discover that Guthix talked to Saradomin and even finds some value in Saradomin's words and actions? This makes no sense at all to put it mildly.

Fair point. Counterpoint:

Guthix also traveled the planes for an unknown period of time before finding Gielinor, ascending to T2, and settling Gielinor. Is it unreasonable to say that Guthix ended up talking to Saradomin at some point during this time?

15-Jan-2017 04:59:14

Padomenes

Padomenes

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Summerleaf said :
Mewzard, you're totally wrong here.

Here's the Wiki Link to the Naragun God Wars if you would like to educate yourself:
http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Naragun_God_Wars

Saradomin came first, and literally massacred them because they refused to worship him. Tuska was drawn by (presumably) the crown or the planet's anima. Skargaroth followed Tuska. It wasn't until this moment that Saradomin changed targets from the Naragi towards the other Gods. Yet he acknowledged what he was wrong and changed his mind but yet you say "No mercy!". A person who has stolen several times should have their hands chopped off, that is the kind of thing you would advocate.

There is no evidence to suggest he ordered the massacre of all 420 gadillion remaining/surviving Naragi according to the blak bok of saragnoism, the remaining ones did not die off at the hands of Saradomin or his followers. But the other gods including Tuska plus collateral damage. He even tried to make up for it which was possibly when he managed to have a conversation with Guthix but failed, still you say "no mercy, no forgiveness, instant judgement".

But then somebody with your hypocritical unforgiving mindset will go on to claim that Saradomin has some kind of magical power that he used to remotely make all the surviving naragi go extinct far away somehow, after he was wounded by Tuska and possibly in critical condition.

15-Jan-2017 05:09:45 - Last edited on 15-Jan-2017 05:34:28 by Padomenes

Padomenes

Padomenes

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LadyScalpel said :
Mewzard said :
In the recent Memorial to Guthix, one of the memories shed an interesting bit of light on Saradomin and Guthix's history.

World Gate:

I was reminded of something Saradomin once told me...that he has never desired war, but we must fight to preserve peace.

If we do not stand before the swarm, it will consume us. 'Some must die so all can live. Sacrifices must be made for the greater good.' Now those I swore to protect die in my name. They suffer for my mistake.

It is a painful lesson, the kind of knowledge that forever changes one's ideals. I am finally beginning to understand the necessity of what happened on Naragun. "


That one line: "I am finally beginning to understand the necessity of what happened on Naragun." ...That's quite the powerful statement. Was this from when Tuska arrived and Saradomin and his forces had to work with the Naragi to try and fend of Tuska? Man, I wish we could ask Saradomin about it.

I'm curious as to what you

I agree with people saying that this memory makes no sense. I could hardly believe my eyes when I read it.

1) There is absolutely nothing in Guthixian memories to suggest that Guthix and Saradomin talked on Naragun. They couldn't have had philosophical conversetions before Guthix banished the gods either.

I am finally beginning to understand the necessity of what happened on Naragun.

But what happened on Naragun? Saradomin destroyed the capital of Naragi, Askroth, killing a large number of Naragi people.

I'm sorry but to make Guthix say this is ridiculous. What happened was he TRIED to make up for it, and switched sides to the Naragi then attempted to defend the population but FAILED. That was when he and Guthix could have spoken had they met in a conversation. Afterwards when he was kicked out the remaining were wiped out by Tuska and the others along with following collateral damage.

15-Jan-2017 05:13:04 - Last edited on 15-Jan-2017 05:14:53 by Padomenes

Lego Miester
Nov Member 2023

Lego Miester

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Hazeel said :

Honestly, Saradomin's statements in DoC made no sense. Skargaroth wasn't after the Naragi at all and was hardly even a threat other than colatoral damage. There was nothing stopping Saradomin from teaming up with him and taking a mindless beast down. Together they would have effortlessly destroyed her. It makes me suspect he was either lying or this was a huge lore inconsistancy.

In my headcanon at least he fled not long after Skargaroth got there, realizing he was outnumbered and his forces were already crippled by Tuska.

Hazeel said :
How do you call centuries of war after Askroth "nothing"? How many people do you think survived by the time that memory happened? How long do you think a race of non-combatants in an unorganized godless "army" can last against one of the most experienced Gods in the unvierse?


Just because he fought them doesn't mean he exterminated them, he's not evil. If I could guess there were 3 categories:
-naragi that fought against him that were quickly dealt with
-naragi that surrendered that he welcomed into his fold to build his new Askaroth and structures since they're not suited for battle
-refugees that fled that he simply let be. Not helping them in their plight because they're not "his people."

Then Tuska shows up and blows through Saradomin's army, he tries to use the naragi that sided with him but they die too, Skargaroth shows up and he nopes the heck out of there, leaving Guthix and other scattered survivors to fend for themselves. Headcanon Haven, where everything is made up and the points don't matter.
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15-Jan-2017 07:00:49 - Last edited on 15-Jan-2017 07:04:30 by Lego Miester

Hazeel

Hazeel

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Lego Miester said :
Just because he fought them doesn't mean he exterminated them, he's not evil. If I could guess there were 3 categories:
-naragi that fought against him that were quickly dealt with
-naragi that surrendered that he welcomed into his fold to build his new Askaroth and structures since they're not suited for battle
-refugees that fled that he simply let be. Not helping them in their plight because they're not "his people."

Then Tuska shows up and blows through Saradomin's army, he tries to use the naragi that sided with him but they die too, Skargaroth shows up and he nopes the heck out of there, leaving Guthix and other scattered survivors to fend for themselves.

According to Guthix's memory, the reason he didn't send his own daughter away is because the Naragi were running out of places to hide. Saradomin was definitely hunting them down. At best, you could make the argument that he was just enslaving them rather than killing them, but he definitely wasn't letting them be. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

15-Jan-2017 07:07:45

Padomenes

Padomenes

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Correction of your logic: Hazeel said :
With a snap of his fingers *hocus pocus* after he was in critical condition from being defeated by Tuska, Saradomin magically made all of the 420 gadillion surviving naragi die on purpose then laughed and enjoyed it all.

15-Jan-2017 07:13:08 - Last edited on 15-Jan-2017 07:14:34 by Padomenes

Hazeel

Hazeel

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Padomenes said :
Correction of your logic: Hazeel said :
With a snap of his fingers *hocus pocus* after he was in critical condition from being defeated by Tuska, Saradomin magically made all of the 420 gadillion surviving naragi die on purpose then laughed and enjoyed it all.

I'm sure Paladin would love your new headcanon. I'll admit I got a laugh out of it myself. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

15-Jan-2017 09:10:38

Darc Oejder

Darc Oejder

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Saradomin definitely wasn't good in Guthix's homeworld I don't understand why Padomenes defends him so much. I think he has changed for the better now. He is still arrogant, self-righteous and a hypocrite who wants to be in charge but I think he does want to do the right thing in his own way. It is debatable whether he actively hunted the naragi or not either way the destruction there was caused by him and he made a run for it when the other gods arrived leaving the naragi to be exterminated. If he cared for the naragi and wanted to make up for his mistakes he should have opened a portal to another world for them to escape to like Armadyl offered to do to the feline race.
I am not bashing Saradomin or anything. I don't follow any god and if I get the opportunity to redeem him I will but he is not what I would call benevolent at the moment.
There is joy in combat that can't be found anywhere else.

15-Jan-2017 17:04:49

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