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Saradomin and Guthix*spoilers*

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Hazeel

Hazeel

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It mentions that everyone's dead and Saradomin abandoned the place, but before Tuska even came, there were centuries of war between them and Saradomin. By the time Tuska came, I doubt there was must left to kill. Guthix even mentioned that fleeing from Saradomin was futile. He was actively hunting down everyone, even the refugees. Guthix calls it a "war", given that refugees were targetted and that it was a one sided battle, "genocide" really does feel like a more adequte term.

Honestly, Saradomin's statements in DoC made no sense. Skargaroth wasn't after the Naragi at all and was hardly even a threat other than colatoral damage. There was nothing stopping Saradomin from teaming up with him and taking a mindless beast down. Together they would have effortlessly destroyed her. It makes me suspect he was either lying or this was a huge lore inconsistancy. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

10-Jan-2017 22:52:12

CD_Paladin_C

CD_Paladin_C

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I like the idea that the conversation took place when it was Saradomin's turn to be removed from Gielinor. Guthix approached him hoping to understand why the murderer did what he did and that was one of Saradomin's famous "I'm so sorry...*spits in your face*" responses (like "I'm so sorry about Naragun....*defying world guardian frying*". Always liked the popular theory that the two fought and instead of Guthix banishing him right away like Bandos, he decided to toy with him, but when Saradomin got too reckless and started becoming a threat to his followers, that's when Guthix banished him. "Your god's dead next time he's in a world event. "
-The Lore Community to our Saradominist Friends, Said During World Event 2, Proven During World Event 3.
#StopSaradomin

10-Jan-2017 23:45:26

CD_Paladin_C

CD_Paladin_C

Posts: 3,945 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Hazeel said :
It mentions that everyone's dead and Saradomin abandoned the place, but before Tuska even came, there were centuries of war between them and Saradomin. By the time Tuska came, I doubt there was must left to kill. Guthix even mentioned that fleeing from Saradomin was futile. He was actively hunting down everyone, even the refugees. Guthix calls it a "war", given that refugees were targetted and that it was a one sided battle, "genocide" really does feel like a more adequte term.

Honestly, Saradomin's statements in DoC made no sense. Skargaroth wasn't after the Naragi at all and was hardly even a threat other than colatoral damage. There was nothing stopping Saradomin from teaming up with him and taking a mindless beast down. Together they would have effortlessly destroyed her. It makes me suspect he was either lying or this was a huge lore inconsistancy.

Theres lorefails related to the Naragun god wars timeline. Some sources say it lasted centuries, some say it only lasted a few years.

Never the less I want to remind people that Tuska and the Airut tend to enslave people as seen with the Goebies (they got enslaved even though their race can barely function). Meanwhile not a single Naragi slave. Almost like Saradomin wiped almost all of them out... "Your god's dead next time he's in a world event. "
-The Lore Community to our Saradominist Friends, Said During World Event 2, Proven During World Event 3.
#StopSaradomin

10-Jan-2017 23:47:15

Wahisietel
Oct Member 2005

Wahisietel

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Yeah Saradomin went and killed all the Naragi guys this is clearly a lorefail.

The thing is, going by what's actually in-game and not just baseless "X God is EVILLLLL" crap - Saradomin did pretty much nothing else significant after he destroyed Askroth until Tuska showed up years later. Sure, conditions around the ruins of Askroth were bad according to Kaigi's journal, but nothing to indicate Saradomin went around murdering around Naragi for no reason, and that really wouldn't fit with his MO. I imagine he was just trying to convert them, and not particularly hostilely given that Guthix was able to hang out right outside Askroth unopposed.

Guthix saying Saradomin once told him something does not necessarily indicate he personally had a conversation with Saradomin - it could perhaps be something he told the Naragi collectively after Tuska and the other gods arrived (remember, Saradomin, Tuska and Skargaroth were not the only ones).

Also, it's worth noting that this memory appears to take place in the First Age, so Guthix wouldn't have met Saradomin on Gielinor yet. But his memories show that he leant Saradomin's name at some point before he killed Skargaroth. You never were our brightest star, Khazard. 'Vermin slaughtered like lambs'? What does that even mean?

11-Jan-2017 00:13:53 - Last edited on 11-Jan-2017 00:17:10 by Wahisietel

Summerleaf
Nov Member 2012

Summerleaf

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Mewzard, you're totally wrong here.

Here's the Wiki Link to the Naragun God Wars if you would like to educate yourself:
http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Naragun_God_Wars

Saradomin came first, and literally massacred them because they refused to worship him. Tuska was drawn by (presumably) the crown or the planet's anima. Skargaroth followed Tuska. It wasn't until this moment that Saradomin changed targets from the Naragi towards the other Gods.

11-Jan-2017 02:44:25

Mewzard
Dec Member 2023

Mewzard

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Summerleaf said :
Mewzard, you're totally wrong here.

Here's the Wiki Link to the Naragun God Wars if you would like to educate yourself:
http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Naragun_God_Wars

Saradomin came first, and literally massacred them because they refused to worship him. Tuska was drawn by (presumably) the crown or the planet's anima. Skargaroth followed Tuska. It wasn't until this moment that Saradomin changed targets from the Naragi towards the other Gods.

Way to be insulting. I got those memories as soon as humanly possible when they were released and read them many times.

Outside of the destruction of Askroth, there is little death mentioned until after Saradomin had been driven away by Tuska and was rampaging through the lands (survivors are mentioned in the memories before Tuska...but not after her appearance).

Now, can we focus on the actual new Guthixian Memories in the recent update? That's what this topic is for. The forums have argued the old stuff to death since it debuted.

11-Jan-2017 03:16:59

SonofZeruiah
Jun Member 2016

SonofZeruiah

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I just went back and read the original memories to compare with this new memory. The first set calls Saradomin an invader who swapped sides when Tuska showed up. Compare with what we have learned about Saradomin in quests involving him, the pattern does not seem to be one of extermination, but of covert or be conquered. We do not know how long the invasion was, but we do know that Saradomin's crown drew Tuska. It seems like from the first memories, however, that she was far more destructive and closer to genocide like behavior.

Also, the first set of memories tell us that by the time Guthix ascended by killing Skargaroth, he knew Saradomin's name, so this new memory is not a great lore fail. The comparison is pretty clear: Saradomin waged a war at Naragun to prepare them for a greater threat, preaching his usual belief that sacrifices must be made to stop greater evils. This was largely rejected by the Naragi, and thus many died at his hands. Tuska eventually arrives and finishes them off. In comparison: Guthix accidentally let the pests into Gelinor, which required sending his followers to die to keep the entire planet safe. Guthix reveals in this new memory that he realized part of Saradomin's message was right even if his means had been wrong.

If the war with the Naragi went on for some years, it would be no surprise that Saradomin's message of submit to avoid ruin would have been heard by Guthix at some point.

Finally (and this is speculation and theory now), when Tuska attacks in the first set of memories, Guthix notes that Saradomin fought the beast directly, something worth noting, so it might be reasonable to assume Saradomin was not bringing his full power to bare by not often directly attacking the Naragi (as most gods have proven hesitant to engage in such struggles often).

11-Jan-2017 03:27:48

CD_Paladin_C

CD_Paladin_C

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^
What did Saradomin prepare the Naragi for? Genocide, causes that's what happened.

Btw I just realized that we're in week 2 of 2017, we're not starting off this year on a good foot for Saradomin lore :^( "Your god's dead next time he's in a world event. "
-The Lore Community to our Saradominist Friends, Said During World Event 2, Proven During World Event 3.
#StopSaradomin

11-Jan-2017 03:49:16 - Last edited on 11-Jan-2017 05:35:05 by CD_Paladin_C

Hazeel

Hazeel

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How do you call centuries of war after Askroth "nothing"? How many people do you think survived by the time that memory happened? How long do you think a race of non-combatants in an unorganized godless "army" can last against one of the most experienced Gods in the unvierse?

To put it in perspective, Zamorak, a God who had only just ascended and formed a ragtag army was able to take Infernus in 20 years. He had to fight an organized army of warlike creatures with a leader who was on par with a Tier 5 God. And I'm supposed to believe the Naragi population was largely unaffected after centuries of war with Saradomin? Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

11-Jan-2017 05:42:40 - Last edited on 11-Jan-2017 05:42:57 by Hazeel

Mewzard
Dec Member 2023

Mewzard

Posts: 954 Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I question if a Naragi year is anywhere near as long as a normal year, because they shouldn't have lasted even a decade under the circumstances you listed (even just defeating combatants and avoiding the kill, you'd think such a war wouldn't last centuries).

But once again, that is not what this topic is about. Please keep to the recent bit of lore (the old Guthix Memories have been discussed to death on these forums).

I just want to discuss what we've recently learned without my topic being derailed.

11-Jan-2017 07:11:58

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