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Hguoh

Hguoh

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Hazeel said :
-Control the anima so they never wake (Former Plan).
No way to tell if it's actually working, and all it takes is one person (Xenia) to undo it all even if it does work.


-Drain the anima to levels unsustainable for the Elders.
As we know from Xenia's attempt to do this, this wakes them up. Furthermore, as life produces Anima, you'd have to remove all life from the plane. You miss a single bit, or somebody manages to make it to the plane later on, and the plan fails.


-Drain the Elders themselves in a similar way done to Mah. (Likely done in conjuction with the above plan.)
After creating 2 gods, a race of veritable demigods, and countless Muspah still had enough power to have torn the plane apart while she was being drained. Even ignoring the lack of a suitable Ritual Marker on Gielinor, do you honestly think that the you'd be able to pacify even one of the remaining 4 whom are more powerful than Mah, more cognizant than Mah, and have a chance to wake up since you can only enter one mind at a time?


-Move the citizens of Gielinor and then destroy Gielinor, thus starving the Elders.
The Stone of Jas, the most powerful weapon in the game, could only nuke a continent. How do you propose we destroy Gielinor without the Elders waking midway through the process?

12-Dec-2016 21:57:13 - Last edited on 12-Dec-2016 21:57:34 by Hguoh

Hazeel

Hazeel

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SwedishPagns said :
Xenia's plan was terrible IMO. It'd result in no magic.

This is an unfounded theory from a mage who hasn't even mastered the basic spellbook and is contradicted by two much more credible sources (Lunar Clan and Zaros). At best, it's false. At worst, it's moot since we can magic in Freneskae which has little to no anima.

Anima is constantly being generated by living things and if the prescense of one mortal on Freneskae generates enough anima to use magic, then we don't have an issue. The only problem with Xenia's plan is that it's not permanent and you would need to schedule this ritual of removing anima indefinetly or until a solution to killing the Elders once and for all is found.

But even if Xenia wanted to keep a constant vaccum that was constantly taking every little bit of anima without pause, anyone with an artifact is immune to this. Since the WG has the measure, we can still use magic and that's all that matters.

SwedishPagns said :
No more Wizards' Tower or the Wizards' Guild.

This is bad because?

SwedishPagns said :
Ancient Drew said :
Hazeel said :
EDIT: I'm disapointed we've gone this whole thread without a Twilight reference. You did not just say that.

*coughsayitoutloudsayitcough*

Yer a Mahjarrat, Hazeel.

A w-what?

@Hguoh

Yeah they've been awake for awhile...no hurry. It took Zamorak a few seconds to nuke Forinthry. Give someone a minute and a few well placed teleports and the entire world could be reduced to the same state. Mah was weak because she had no anima, if the others don't have anima they would be left in a similar state. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

12-Dec-2016 23:15:22

Hguoh

Hguoh

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Hazeel said :
Yeah they've been awake for awhile...no hurry. It took Zamorak a few seconds to nuke Forinthry. Give someone a minute and a few well placed teleports and the entire world could be reduced to the same state. Mah was weak because she had no anima, if the others don't have anima they would be left in a similar state.

Mah didn't just have no anima, she also spent an entire Revision running on that empty tank, was corrupted (which, according to Mod Rowley, resulted in losing quite a bit of her memory), made 2 t2 gods, made all the Mahjarrat/Mahserrat/Chelon-Mah tribes, made all the Muspah, and made her gigantic interplanar Ritual Marker. The other Elders are going to be well-rested, they just aren't going to have their breakfast.

You're also assuming that you could successfully drain all or nearly all of the world's anima and then systemically nuke the entire planet using the SoJ which has never been shown to be capable of producing so many rapid subsequent explosions of that degree (even if it could, the response from the dragonkin when the stone is used that much puts both the plan and every living thing even tangentially related to the somebody who used the stone at risk). And if any part of that fails, the entire plan goes kaput.

13-Dec-2016 00:13:54 - Last edited on 13-Dec-2016 00:23:40 by Hguoh

Dennorak
Jul Member 2020

Dennorak

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Zulkir said :
It should come as no surprise that my opinion of Zaros has improved. The ritual after all was HIS idea, one Zamorak BEGGED the Mahjarrat not to attend, which led to their salvation.

Like it or not, get angry and bust a blood vessel or two, Zaros is their saviour. Whats not to praise?

The "What...no" comment was because while Zaros was bringing Zamorak to heel like a good lesser excuse for a god, the latter was using their godly power to empower the Mahjarrat, if Zaros had killed him it would of been seen as stopping the Mahjarrat from getting help, it would of made Zamorak a martyr. Something Zaros said he refused to do. Pretty obvious thing to do.

As for the pact this is first hand seeing Zaros in his element, and it was grand. Zamorak knew he had no choice but to obey else face oblivion, and both signing parties accepted the terms ending with Zamorak writing Zaros a blank cheque. This isn't a negative, this is sore asses over being under Zaros's foot.

Final point, Zaros wasn't furious over losing his shot at revenge, you seem to of forgotten Zamorak fired first and got his pride and body mutilated as a result of thinking he could stand up to him without his little stick.

If Zaros gets mad, something we've seen only once during TLW the very planet shakes, it was Seren who was distraught after the events of COM, not Zaros. Id say he left pretty content. He achieved his objective, put a lesser in his place, and obtained something useful for his plans later on.
I think both of us are pretty biased when it comes to this topic, but honestly coming away from this quest I just got the vibe Zamorak was just a *better* person than Zaros. In terms of caring for others over themselves and willing to sacrifice themselves to help the general populace. I remember a mod quote about how Zaros would be willing to sacrifice everything to save his own life, yet here we have Zamorak (cont next post)
Zamorakian Lorehound, Flame of Chaos member, Bilrach enthusiast

13-Dec-2016 09:02:10

Dennorak
Jul Member 2020

Dennorak

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ready and willing to sacrifice his own life in order to strengthen the mahjarrat. I think that's a pretty distinct difference between them, and even as a Zamorakian I came away both impressed and surprised at just how much of a selfless yet ambitious individual they have displayed Zamorak to be.

As for Zaros, I really came away with a worse view of him following the quest. I know, I know, most Zarosians pull the "Zamorak shot first!" but put yourself in his shoes. Why on earth would you trust Zaros at all? Especially when he chooses your son to display a ritual that the "empty lord" the name which he got for not fulfilling his promises, promises will strengthen him? Trust is something that is earned, not given, yet Zarosians act like someone like Zamorak who has seen his empty promises firsthand should dive in head first and trust him. I mean, Zaros is someone who tells you what you want to hear to get you on his side, nothing more, nothing less. Not to say Zamorak is blame free in this scenario, he was obviously not seeing clearly when it comes to Zaros but in the end Zamorak was still willing to put his life on the line TWICE during this quest (attacking Zaros to protect Khazard, and transferring his energy to ALL the mahjarrat, Zarosians included). If that doesn't gain even a little bit of respect for Zamorak then I question what you're looking for.

But back to Zaros, it was just something about him that made him seem less of an "alien emotionless" character, and more like a straight up dick. Like when he preaches about how the mahjarrat are all his family, yet we see in the cutscene he sees them as nothing more than glorified mercenaries.
Zamorakian Lorehound, Flame of Chaos member, Bilrach enthusiast

13-Dec-2016 09:02:24 - Last edited on 13-Dec-2016 09:12:38 by Dennorak

Daldar
Jun Member 2020

Daldar

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Hguoh said :
Hazeel said :
Yeah they've been awake for awhile...no hurry. It took Zamorak a few seconds to nuke Forinthry. Give someone a minute and a few well placed teleports and the entire world could be reduced to the same state. Mah was weak because she had no anima, if the others don't have anima they would be left in a similar state.

You're also assuming that you could successfully drain all or nearly all of the world's anima and then systemically nuke the entire planet using the SoJ which has never been shown to be capable of producing so many rapid subsequent explosions of that degree ( even if it could, the response from the dragonkin when the stone is used that much puts both the plan and every living thing even tangentially related to the somebody who used the stone at risk ). And if any part of that fails, the entire plan goes kaput.

If anything, the dragonkin responding to heavy use of the SoJ will help the destruction... The dragonkin seem to have experience in destroying entire civilizations, Kethsi anyone?

13-Dec-2016 12:53:42

Aig123
Jun Member 2019

Aig123

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If anything, I trust Seren less. She is just as likely to give us the World Guardian special treatment and butter us up as Zaros does, maybe even more so at this point.

The concern CoM has given me is the Mahjarrats ambitions, particularly Azzanadra and Bilrach, both show undying loyalty, insanity and going to extreme lengths for their Gods.

13-Dec-2016 15:20:11

Hazeel

Hazeel

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Hguoh said :
Mah didn't just have no anima, she also spent an entire Revision running on that empty tank, was corrupted (which, according to Mod Rowley, resulted in losing quite a bit of her memory), made 2 t2 gods, made all the Mahjarrat/Mahserrat/Chelon-Mah tribes, made all the Muspah, and made her gigantic interplanar Ritual Marker. The other Elders are going to be well-rested, they just aren't going to have their breakfast.

And that's just it. Even Mahjarrat were capable of forcing Mah to make more of them. What if we were to do the same for the others? Yes, there's questions that need to be answered, like "Can the Mahjarrat do this to other Elder Gods? Or would you need a 'Jasjarrat' for this?" At any rate, if we could study this and look into creating other creatures of the Elder Gods--or just having the Mahjarrat drain them, this would go a long way in weakening them.

Also, while corruption screwed her memory, it was the lack of anima that made Mah so weak to begin with. Creating a couple of tier two Gods was nothing. That's like removing 2% of her energy if even that. Same with the Mahjarrat. Having them drain her of all her power is what ruined her.

Hguoh said :
You're also assuming that you could successfully drain all or nearly all of the world's anima and then systemically nuke the entire planet using the SoJ which has never been shown to be capable of producing so many rapid subsequent explosions of that degree (even if it could, the response from the dragonkin when the stone is used that much puts both the plan and every living thing even tangentially related to the somebody who used the stone at risk).

1) I doubt the stone needs to be "recharged".

2) I believe the Dragonkin's rage is focused on who drains the stone of its power, not who uses it to what degree. Otherwise Zamorak would be more targetted. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

13-Dec-2016 17:04:27 - Last edited on 13-Dec-2016 17:05:50 by Hazeel

Hazeel

Hazeel

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Now with that said, I am merely speaking from a hypothetical standpoint. From a story standpoint, yes, it would be much more interesting and enjoyable to have to fight off Zaros from achieving his goal and outcon the conman before taking the final fight to Jas and her sisters.

Aig123 said :
If anything, I trust Seren less. She is just as likely to give us the World Guardian special treatment and butter us up as Zaros does, maybe even more so at this point.

Does she? She seems much more willing to chastise me. And to what purpose would she butter the WG up? She doesn't really have any goals or plans to call us up on. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

13-Dec-2016 17:20:32 - Last edited on 13-Dec-2016 17:21:18 by Hazeel

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