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Nomad Hardmode - MQC or not?

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Chaos Lupus

Chaos Lupus

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Hguoh said :
Chaos Lupus said :
There are already requirements for the MQC that shouldn't be there, that doesn't mean we should add more.

I'm afraid I really don't see the issue with requirements like Hard Mode Nomad. Unlike farming bosses for RNG-based lore drops, killing HM Nomad once or getting the Enhanced Fire Cape from the Kiln have well defined end points. So even if you don't like or aren't good at such content, you can at least take comfort in knowing you only have to do it so much and then never again.

It's true that such activities offer little to nothing when it comes to lore, but that really isn't all that important in this case. Sure, some quests are lore heavy, but others have little to none. And I believe it's important for the Master Quest Cape to delve deeper into all aspects of quests. So yeah, that means getting players to pursue lore. On the other hand, it also means getting that Enhanced Firecape, earning the Firemaker's costume, fully upgrading the Theives' Guild, lighting a specific fire on Mos Le'Harmless, or fully claiming a quest's rewards.

I understand wanting a reward tailored to Lorehounds, but I don't believe the MQC is the right outlet for this as lore is but one part, albeit a notable one, of questing.

It doesn't just have to be lore-related, but it should at least be relevant to quests in order to qualify as a requirement for the MQC. Nomad's hard mode is not, it's nothing but a boss fight. The relevant part was completed during Elegy. As Darkest said, if all expansion of any form of content in any quest should be included, then we may as well require maxed skills because we use skilling in quests.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

09-Sep-2016 20:23:26

Hguoh

Hguoh

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Chaos Lupus said :
It doesn't just have to be lore-related, but it should at least be relevant to quests in order to qualify as a requirement for the MQC. Nomad's hard mode is not, it's nothing but a boss fight. The relevant part was completed during Elegy. As Darkest said, if all expansion of any form of content in any quest should be included, then we may as well require maxed skills because we use skilling in quests.

We use skilling in quests to either access the quest itself or complete a task within the quest.

Reqs on the MQC reflect this as the increased skill levels needed to obtain it are either used to claim a post quest reward DAT chests) or to complete a task in order to get a post quest reward (elder chronicles) or lore drop (Dungeoneering journals).

Obtaining max level in a skill doesn't typically do that (99 Runecrafting is needed for Sedridor's chest). The nearest comparison I can think of to requiring max skills for the MQC is if you needed 200M xp to get a master (120) skill cape.

09-Sep-2016 20:30:01 - Last edited on 09-Sep-2016 20:32:35 by Hguoh

Wahisietel
Oct Member 2005

Wahisietel

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Skills that are required for and used in quests obviously aren't the same thing as minigames, boss fights and other pieces of content that the quest introduces and unlocks, so enough with the strawman arguments. You never were our brightest star, Khazard. 'Vermin slaughtered like lambs'? What does that even mean?

09-Sep-2016 20:30:52 - Last edited on 09-Sep-2016 20:32:04 by Wahisietel

Chaos Lupus

Chaos Lupus

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Hguoh said :
Chaos Lupus said :
It doesn't just have to be lore-related, but it should at least be relevant to quests in order to qualify as a requirement for the MQC. Nomad's hard mode is not, it's nothing but a boss fight. The relevant part was completed during Elegy. As Darkest said, if all expansion of any form of content in any quest should be included, then we may as well require maxed skills because we use skilling in quests.

We use skilling in quests to either access the quest itself or complete a task within the quest.

Reqs on the MQC reflect this as the increased skill levels needed to obtain it are either used to claim a post quest reward DAT chests) or to complete a task in order to get a post quest reward (elder chronicles).

Obtaining max level in a skill doesn't typically do that (99 Runecrafting is needed for Sedridor's chest). The nearest comparison I can think of to requiring max skills for the MQC is if you required 200M xp to get a master (120) skill cape.

DAT requires 30 thieving. At 53 you can steal from desert bandits. The two are completely unrelated, as stealing from desert bandits does nothing to give you access to DAT and isn't required for you to complete it. The hard mode Nomad fight has the same relationship with Elegy, it's just as relevant as stealing from desert bandits is to DAT.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

09-Sep-2016 20:36:46

Hguoh

Hguoh

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Chaos Lupus said :
Hguoh said :
Chaos Lupus said :
It doesn't just have to be lore-related, but it should at least be relevant to quests in order to qualify as a requirement for the MQC. Nomad's hard mode is not, it's nothing but a boss fight. The relevant part was completed during Elegy. As Darkest said, if all expansion of any form of content in any quest should be included, then we may as well require maxed skills because we use skilling in quests.

We use skilling in quests to either access the quest itself or complete a task within the quest.

Reqs on the MQC reflect this as the increased skill levels needed to obtain it are either used to claim a post quest reward DAT chests) or to complete a task in order to get a post quest reward (elder chronicles).

Obtaining max level in a skill doesn't typically do that (99 Runecrafting is needed for Sedridor's chest). The nearest comparison I can think of to requiring max skills for the MQC is if you required 200M xp to get a master (120) skill cape.

DAT requires 30 thieving. At 53 you can steal from desert bandits. The two are completely unrelated, as stealing from desert bandits does nothing to give you access to DAT and isn't required for you to complete it. The hard mode Nomad fight has the same relationship with Elegy, it's just as relevant as stealing from desert bandits is to DAT.

Except you actually need to do Elegy to access the HM Nomad fight, and it is an expansion of the fight during the quest much like the Fight Kiln.

You could argue that it was released long after Elegy, but then again, so too was Elder Divination.

09-Sep-2016 20:42:31 - Last edited on 09-Sep-2016 20:43:09 by Hguoh

Chaos Lupus

Chaos Lupus

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Wahisietel said :
Skills that are required for and used in quests obviously aren't the same thing as minigames, boss fights and other pieces of content that the quest introduces and unlocks, so enough with the strawman arguments.

Plague's End unlocks Prifddinas. Should every possible thing that can be done there be required for the MQC as well just because the quest introduced and unlocked it?
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

09-Sep-2016 20:44:43

Lord Drakan
Sep Member 2010

Lord Drakan

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Chaos Lupus said :
Wahisietel said :
Skills that are required for and used in quests obviously aren't the same thing as minigames, boss fights and other pieces of content that the quest introduces and unlocks, so enough with the strawman arguments.

Plague's End unlocks Prifddinas. Should every possible thing that can be done there be required for the MQC as well just because the quest introduced and unlocked it?
You've already been over this. It's exactly like Livid Farm. If PE actually featured and unlocked Prifddinas content, yes, but it doesn't. Bizarre Boron Fusswell, scryer extraordinaire. OSRS: POH ideas & RS3 minigames & achievement ideas !

Perhaps you're half right; perhaps we can't win. But we can fight.
— Zanik

10-Sep-2016 08:03:44

Autumn Elite

Autumn Elite

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Lord Drakan said :
Personally I support the requirement because I think you should have won hard mode to be able to say you defeated Nomad as he was designed.

But Nomad wasn’t designed this way. He was designed the way he was in the quest and as Leth said

Zulkir said :
It's a pointless rematch fight because people complained that Nomad was too easy. It's a fight for the sake of a fight, literally nothing else.

The only reason this exists is because high level PvM people, not questers, were upset with the fight. It is another community requesting something. Would the Insane Final Boss title require Farming if skillers complained GWD2 didn’t have a herb patch? It is the same level of relevance.

Wahisietel said :
If I was able to beat him with barely any effort when I was just using tetsu and drygores and a yak full of Rocktails, then no, he wasn't a hard boss. I didn't even avoid any of his specials.

Keep in mind the other master quest cape requirements already give you close to max combat stats and a free set of T85 gear , so anyone actually eligible should be well equipped to deal with him.

Someone who fought him with tier 90s (costing what 40 mil?), the top tier food, the top tier summoning familiar and Ports armour found him easy. Some people can AFK Mushaps. For people with the levels and armour appropriate to starting the quest, it is a hard fight.

Also free tier 85 gear? I must have missed that memo.

Wahisietel said :
We're obviously never going to get a tough boss required for the quest cape again

And given the low amount of resources quests get these days, that is fine. If you want tough boss fights, there is bossing for that. Wasting a large amount of the small number of quests these days resources on a one time fight is incredibly inefficient.

10-Sep-2016 14:05:12

Chaos Lupus

Chaos Lupus

Posts: 9,633 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Lord Drakan said :
Chaos Lupus said :
Wahisietel said :
Skills that are required for and used in quests obviously aren't the same thing as minigames, boss fights and other pieces of content that the quest introduces and unlocks, so enough with the strawman arguments.

Plague's End unlocks Prifddinas. Should every possible thing that can be done there be required for the MQC as well just because the quest introduced and unlocked it?
You've already been over this. It's exactly like Livid Farm. If PE actually featured and unlocked Prifddinas content, yes, but it doesn't.

PE does unlock Prifddinas. And Elegy doesn't feature the hard mode Nomad fight. The rational here just doesn't hold up.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

10-Sep-2016 16:11:50

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