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Nomad Hardmode - MQC or not?

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Hguoh

Hguoh

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Chaos Lupus said :
Hguoh said :
Hazeel said :
That's how a MQC should be obtained...through a passion for lore. Nothing else.

I'd like to point out that even if you did remove all the non-lore reqs, you'd still have to grind out KBD, QBD, GWD1 generals, Nex, and Ripper Demons for their lore drops. Most, if not all, of the PvM reqs are easier than Nex/Ripper Demons, so the cape would still have the same, 'You need to be this good at PvM to get this,' clause attached to it.

All of those provide access to lore, Nomad's hard mode does not. Whether or not books should only be accessible via boss drops in the first place is another matter.

Yes, yes. I know, but here was another part of Hazeel's post:

Hazeel said :
Except most lorehounds either won't get it because of the ridiculous amount of unnecessary PvM required or are physically incapable of getting it due to an overly challenging boss.

Even if you removed the non-lore aspects of the cape, the vast majority of grinding PvM content and the most challenging boss you need to face to get the cape (Nex) remain. The rational of making the cape only need lore related content in order to make it more accessible to lorehounds who aren't very good at or don't enjoy PvMing simply doesn't add up when the most challenging and grindy of the PvM reqs are still there.

09-Sep-2016 04:41:46 - Last edited on 09-Sep-2016 04:42:53 by Hguoh

Hazeel

Hazeel

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If we removed the unncessary PvM, the hardest part left would be Nex. Nex is a high up boss, but unlike solo bosses, any untalented scrub can just join a massive group--or even a small group of reasonably skilled bossers--and beat her with little to no effort. And, as Loopy said, it provides lore. The fact that you could fight her in a group makes her a reasonable requirement because even if you are completely garbage and bossing and can't beat her alone you can always join a group and get around this. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

09-Sep-2016 04:50:25

Hguoh

Hguoh

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Hazeel said :
If we removed the unncessary PvM, the hardest part left would be Nex. Nex is a high up boss, but unlike solo bosses, any untalented scrub can just join a massive group--or even a small group of reasonably skilled bossers--and beat her with little to no effort. And, as Loopy said, it provides lore. The fact that you could fight her in a group makes her a reasonable requirement because even if you are completely garbage and bossing and can't beat her alone you can always join a group and get around this.

There's also the Ripper Demons and their books, and you really can't mob them.

And QBD, who is solo only.

09-Sep-2016 04:54:14 - Last edited on 09-Sep-2016 04:57:48 by Hguoh

Hazeel

Hazeel

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You do have a fair point with QBD but Ripper Demons? I'm having a hard time buying that. I can believe that some people will be challenged or severly annoyed with this task, but I have a really hard time buying that there is anyone who has completed all the quests but can't beat Ripper Demons. I mean if they're having trouble doing a large number at a time that's one thing. But being physically incapable of doing it? No.

The QBD, though, is unfortunate yes. It is necessary for the lore and isn't one of the hardest bosses in the game, so it's reasonable. I would, however, prefer to keep the risk of lorehounds being physically incapable of obtaining the cape to a minimum. The fact that it's harder to obtain that a Max Cape despite looking asthetically less pleasing, having worse stats, and having no customization is jarring enough as it is anyway. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

09-Sep-2016 05:16:38 - Last edited on 09-Sep-2016 05:21:52 by Hazeel

Lord Drakan
Sep Member 2010

Lord Drakan

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My final take on the matter:

This is a master quest cape and quests aren't about lore. In fact, quests have very little to do with lore other than being an excellent but certainly not exclusive way to convey it. Quests are primarily about story and gameplay. One can argue lore is a subcategory of the former, and the cape currently includes pretty much all discoverable lore and story bits in the game, excluding the stupidly rare warped Dungeoneering journals. Even if the most minor tidbits of lore or story are barred behind content like GWD or 100 ancient chronicles, it's still on there.

The most important aspect of a quest, however, is gameplay. Puzzles and exploration fall under this, for instance, and so does combat, i.e. quest bosses. And guess what, Nomad is 'the' ultimate quest boss when it comes to questing, that's how he was designed. You say questers aren't interested in bossing, which is probably true (it certainly is for myself), but you have quest bosses and overworld bosses and you only refer to the latter. Questers *are* interested in quest bosses - or not, but then they are missing one non-tiny part of questing, and an integral part of the Nomad quests.

And this cape is for true questers: people that go all the way to get everything out of every quest and post-quest content as well as uncover every piece of background lore there is.

The hard mode fight is a piece of content directly related to a quest, thematically fits the quest and is definitely not unreasonable to ask of a quester, since they were required to defeat the original Nomad anyway.

Personally I support the requirement because I think you should have won hard mode to be able to say you defeated Nomad as he was designed. But regardless of my personal opinion, I'd still support the requirement's inclusion anyway, even if I hated the very idea of it. Why? Guidelines. They were discussed & agreed upon and as in real life you follow the consented rules even if you don't like them Bizarre Boron Fusswell, scryer extraordinaire. OSRS: POH ideas & RS3 minigames & achievement ideas !

Perhaps you're half right; perhaps we can't win. But we can fight.
— Zanik

09-Sep-2016 06:41:16

Lord Drakan
Sep Member 2010

Lord Drakan

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As we all agree, it fits the criteria and therefore we should also all agree that it doesn't matter what we think ourselves - the criteria were made incollaboration with us, now's not the time to fume about them. Don't agree with it? Then I say to everyone including myself: deal with it, too late now.

Besides, there's even a cape reward involved and if we leave a tangible quest reward out of the cape then at what point is it still a master quest cape? Because it is. Not for lore players, for quest players. And yes, questers do fight bosses. Sometimes hard ones. Bizarre Boron Fusswell, scryer extraordinaire. OSRS: POH ideas & RS3 minigames & achievement ideas !

Perhaps you're half right; perhaps we can't win. But we can fight.
— Zanik

09-Sep-2016 06:44:02

Hazeel

Hazeel

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Lord Drakan said :
Personally I support the requirement because I think you should have won hard mode to be able to say you defeated Nomad as he was designed. But regardless of my personal opinion, I'd still support the requirement's inclusion anyway, even if I hated the very idea of it. Why? Guidelines. They were discussed & agreed upon and as in real life you follow the consented rules even if you don't like them

So essentially there is no point in this topic at all and you wasted your time in a discussion you find irrelevant. That said, you are entitled to your opinion. If you feel this should focus on post quest content rather than lore, then that's fine. But I feel the comp cape already does this job and the MQC would be better off expanding into a lore focus instead.

But no. That is not how the real world works. That is a mentality that is encouraged among young children to make discipline simple and is a phase that adults grow out of as they are introduced to the real world and realize that rules need to be challenged. It is how society grows. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

09-Sep-2016 07:37:53

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09-Sep-2016 12:46:58

Wahisietel
Oct Member 2005

Wahisietel

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We're way off topic at this point, since this was supposed to be a discussion about whether or not Nomad fits on the Master Quest Cape as it stands right now (he does), and we're now discussing what the Master Quest Cape should be.

To me, it seems that your problem is that the Master Quest Cape represents ALL aspects of quests, and not just the ones you are personally interested in. But I'm curious, which specific requirements on the cape do you disagree with, and what is your reasoning for them? You never were our brightest star, Khazard. 'Vermin slaughtered like lambs'? What does that even mean?

09-Sep-2016 15:49:54

Ancient Drew

Ancient Drew

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It seems a little bit odd that Sheep Shearer and Witch's Potion are there (I thought they were supposed to be removed?), and Gower's Quest made no sense whatsoever. Sorry, but there's something really wrong with a cabbage god; I had to side with Marimbo because monkeys beat cabbages in my book and she loves partying whereas Brassica is a psycho. Apart from that, I'm quite happy. Prepare for hell on RuneScape in Naval Cataclysm!

Pokemon battle? Friend Code: 4614-0426-2439

09-Sep-2016 16:07:30

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