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Nomad Hardmode - MQC or not?

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Ascertes

Ascertes

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The MQC is supposed to be about lore, quests, things of that nature. So I'd have to say no. Since no lore/background is introduced with it, I don't see the reason to add it. -Ascertes, King of all the Hallowlands and the Everchosen of Saradomin.

08-Sep-2016 19:31:11

Hazeel

Hazeel

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Fair enough, you proved me wrong as far as criteria goes. There are definitely guidelines Jagex made for this cape and Nomad fits them perfectly.

....I'm still not supporting his inclusion though. In the end, this thread isn't asking whether Nomad fits the criteria (their guidelines are clear). It's just asking if we think he should be included. I don't. Having seen them, I disagree with the guidelines. There is too much content that is only flimsily related to questing and largely exists to exclude lorehounds from getting the cape.

It might be too little too late, but as a matter of principle, I don't want this content involved. I didn't support it then and I don't support it now, guidelines be damned. The cape is already undesirable, and Rondstat has already covered that. In the short run, Nomad's inclusion or exlusion might not mean much but Jagex has given us an oppurtunity to voice our views and I'm taking it. Hopefully, in the long run, Jagex will realize how many people were disapointed in this and that lorehounds need something of their own, rather than a poor man's comp cape.

Either way I can never support the inclusion of PvM content without lore in a "Master Quest Cape", regardless of what any guidelines say. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

08-Sep-2016 19:47:21 - Last edited on 08-Sep-2016 19:48:14 by Hazeel

Wahisietel
Oct Member 2005

Wahisietel

Posts: 3,426 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
You had plenty of time to voice your opinions about what the master quest cape should be when we set the initial requirements, but that time has passed.

Personally, I don't really see any issue with the requirements as they stand. The only requirements on the cape that I would have personally left off are the Broken Home chest and Wizard Sedridor's chest, every other requirement is fine.

The only requirement added since the initial release that I disagree with is the Oyster D&D, since doing it provides no permanent unlock. You never were our brightest star, Khazard. 'Vermin slaughtered like lambs'? What does that even mean?

08-Sep-2016 20:43:52 - Last edited on 08-Sep-2016 20:44:05 by Wahisietel

Cthris
Dec Member 2023

Cthris

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Wahisietel said :

The cape ALREADY has a ton of requirements that have absolutely nothing to do with lore, many of them PVM related (such as the FIght Kiln, the Phoenix rematch, ect).


As Hume says, you can't derive an ought from an is, or in other words, just because something was done in the past that doesn't mean it should be done in the future.

Your logic here is flawed. Just because a [possible] mistake in the past was made, it doesn't mean that said [potential] mistake should perpetuate into future decisions. Sometimes we must look at our past and realize a mistake was made, promising ourselves never to make it again.

That being said I don't know if the choice to add fight kiln stuff and co. were mistakes, nor do I particularly care. All I know is that this logic is flawed, and should hold no place in logically deciding what to do here.

08-Sep-2016 20:57:51 - Last edited on 08-Sep-2016 20:58:46 by Cthris

Hazeel

Hazeel

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Wahisietel said :
You had plenty of time to voice your opinions about what the master quest cape should be when we set the initial requirements, but that time has passed.

So I did. Now that the oppurtunity has arisen, I shall do so again.

Wahisietel said :
Personally, I don't really see any issue with the requirements as they stand.

Rondstat covered it well, but the short of it is that the MQC was a wasted oppurtunity. Rather than being a symbol for lorehounds, it just became another trophy for completionists and a lesser comp cape. It isn't valued or desirable to the Lore Community at large because of this, and few even aspire to get it now. That is my issue with the requirements and guidelines. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

08-Sep-2016 21:05:19 - Last edited on 08-Sep-2016 21:07:21 by Hazeel

Wahisietel
Oct Member 2005

Wahisietel

Posts: 3,426 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I don't see how it isn't a cape for the lore community. It's got every bit of post-quest content, every lorebook, every miniquest, even the port storylines. Even stuff like Kiln is a introduced and played in a quest before it's played as a minigame. Is your argument that some lore and quest-related stuff is too difficult?

Like I said, the only real issues I have with it are the Broken Home chests (since you need 90 in every skill) and Wizard Sedridor's chest (since you need 99 Runecrafting). You never were our brightest star, Khazard. 'Vermin slaughtered like lambs'? What does that even mean?

08-Sep-2016 21:34:32 - Last edited on 08-Sep-2016 21:35:31 by Wahisietel

Zulkir

Zulkir

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Wahisietel said :
I don't see how it isn't a cape for the lore community. It's got every bit of post-quest content, every lorebook, every miniquest, even the port storylines. Even stuff like Kiln is a introduced and played in a quest before it's played as a minigame. Is your argument that some lore and quest-related stuff is too difficult?

It's not an issue of difficulty, I agree that Nomad in Elegy was laughably easier to his requiem self, but it's the fact that HM only exists to people who complained about it, and that it offers zero Lore. It's a fight just cuz.

If the fight then led onto Tales of Nomad that we're getting, which will be a requirement as it should be, then I'd agree.

But we get nothing from the fight. Sure it drops a Soulcape, but that isn't lore. That's an accessory, one I don't want to bother getting because I'd only do it in the first place to maintain a cape I like way more and shows off a ton more lore achievement.
Zarosian Lorehound

Master Questcape Owner

Inconsistent Completionist

08-Sep-2016 22:08:48

Hazeel

Hazeel

Posts: 6,735 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Wahisietel said :
I don't see how it isn't a cape for the lore community. It's got every bit of post-quest content, every lorebook, every miniquest, even the port storylines.

And is bogged down with content that either doesn't interest lorehounds or is downright unappealing, none of which has to do with lore. Ultimately, the cape is far more appealing to completionists and PvMers (who don't want the skilling needed for a comp cape) than it is for lorehounds.

And then there's this mentality:

Lord Drakan said :
People are opposing either because they don't want to lose their cape, thinking they won't be able to defeat him (to those: if you don't meet all requirements you don't deserve the cape, simple as that)
Wahisietel said :
We're obviously never going to get a tough boss required for the quest cape again, but now we have an opportunity to give the master cape something to rival the original, pre-eoc Nomad in terms of difficulty. As questers, we should embrace this.

"Not a hardcore PvM focused bosser? Well screw off, lorehound scrub, no quest cape for you!"

I mean you yourself said this wasn't a lore cape. Why would lorehounds be interested? We're not bossers. I'd say most of us can't stand bossing. We're willing to put up with boring skilling and PvM RNG for the sake of lore, but bossing isn't our passion. Lore is.

That's how a MQC should be obtained...through a passion for lore. Nothing else. That really is the only potential it had. Its stats are worse than the Max Capes, it looks ugly as hell, and it can't be customized. Except most lorehounds either won't get it because of the ridiculous amount of unnecessary PvM required or are physically incapable of getting it due to an overly challenging boss. The only people who will get it are either already comped or very close, but even then they're better off with their Max Cape. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

08-Sep-2016 22:25:30

Hguoh

Hguoh

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Hazeel said :
That's how a MQC should be obtained...through a passion for lore. Nothing else.

I'd like to point out that even if you did remove all the non-lore reqs, you'd still have to grind out KBD, QBD, GWD1 generals, Nex, and Ripper Demons for their lore drops. Most, if not all, of the PvM reqs are easier than Nex/Ripper Demons, so the cape would still have the same, 'You need to be this good at PvM to get this,' clause attached to it.

09-Sep-2016 03:40:58

Chaos Lupus

Chaos Lupus

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Hguoh said :
Hazeel said :
That's how a MQC should be obtained...through a passion for lore. Nothing else.

I'd like to point out that even if you did remove all the non-lore reqs, you'd still have to grind out KBD, QBD, GWD1 generals, Nex, and Ripper Demons for their lore drops. Most, if not all, of the PvM reqs are easier than Nex/Ripper Demons, so the cape would still have the same, 'You need to be this good at PvM to get this,' clause attached to it.

All of those provide access to lore, Nomad's hard mode does not. Whether or not books should only be accessible via boss drops in the first place is another matter.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

09-Sep-2016 04:24:55 - Last edited on 09-Sep-2016 04:25:33 by Chaos Lupus

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