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Nomad Hardmode - MQC or not?

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Hazeel

Hazeel

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Wahisietel said :
If I was able to beat him with barely any effort when I was just using tetsu and drygores and a yak full of Rocktails, then no, he wasn't a hard boss.

"ROFLMAO! Noob I beat him easily and I was only using some of the highest tier equipment in the game!"

...Seriously your elitism is becoming nauseating. Now maybe if you had beaten him with dragon/barrows using swordies/sharks and no summoning, you'd have an argument....but this quest was made for people with level 79 combat stats. Using 85+ gear in a quest is overkill. Relying on a yak is desperate. Of course he wasn't a "hard boss" to you. -_-

But I guess it's just a matter of opinion. I found NE Nomad way harder than the original pre-EoC. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

08-Sep-2016 16:46:37

Lord Drakan
Sep Member 2010

Lord Drakan

Posts: 7,043 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
@Hazeel: Not sure if trolling, since you couldn't be more wrong. This is a master QUEST cape, not a master LORE cape. While yes, it also requires uncovering most of the lore items/etc. in the game, that's secondary. This is primarily a questers' cape and hey guess what quests aren't about lore.

Defeating Nomad in hard mode meets the criteria (it's a piece of post-quest content that does not require strange-token-esque luck) and so it should be required. Additional argument: defeating the Phoenix post-In Pyre Need or the Cave Wolf Matriarch post-Carnillean Rising serve as precedent for hard modes of bosses fought in quests. You even get a cape for it, so there's a reward involved too.

The fact that the fight adds no new lore is about as relevant as the fact that it adds no new Hunter camouflage gear i.e. not at all.

This shouldn't even be discussed in the first place, Jagex should realise themselves that it fits the criteria and add it. Now people are opposing either because they don't want to lose their cape, thinking they won't be able to defeat him (to those: if you don't meet all requirements you don't deserve the cape, simple as that), or because they obviously haven't an inkling of understanding about what the cape should require, as the above post shows. Bizarre Boron Fusswell, scryer extraordinaire. OSRS: POH ideas & RS3 minigames & achievement ideas !

Perhaps you're half right; perhaps we can't win. But we can fight.
— Zanik

08-Sep-2016 16:50:27

Lord Drakan
Sep Member 2010

Lord Drakan

Posts: 7,043 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Hazeel said :
Wahisietel said :
If I was able to beat him with barely any effort when I was just using tetsu and drygores and a yak full of Rocktails, then no, he wasn't a hard boss.

"ROFLMAO! Noob I beat him easily and I was only using some of the highest tier equipment in the game!"

...Seriously your elitism is becoming nauseating. Now maybe if you had beaten him with dragon/barrows using swordies/sharks and no summoning, you'd have an argument....but this quest was made for people with level 79 combat stats. Using 85+ gear in a quest is overkill. Relying on a yak is desperate. Of course he wasn't a "hard boss" to you. -_-

But I guess it's just a matter of opinion. I found NE Nomad way harder than the original pre-EoC.
I used Barrows with a crystal bow and rocktails, banking after each phase, and I found him considerably easier than pre-EoC. In fact I was only able to beat him pre-EoC using a kyatt, earning myself the quest cape (but not DT access :( ).

That said, how hard he was in the quest is utterly irrelevant, since the boss fight meets the criteria and should ipso fact be required for the cape.

PS. My previous post was (partially) in reply to the post on the previous page. Bizarre Boron Fusswell, scryer extraordinaire. OSRS: POH ideas & RS3 minigames & achievement ideas !

Perhaps you're half right; perhaps we can't win. But we can fight.
— Zanik

08-Sep-2016 16:52:38

Ancient Drew

Ancient Drew

Posts: 5,732 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Hazeel said :
Wahisietel said :
If I was able to beat him with barely any effort when I was just using tetsu and drygores and a yak full of Rocktails, then no, he wasn't a hard boss.

"ROFLMAO! Noob I beat him easily and I was only using some of the highest tier equipment in the game!"

...Seriously your elitism is becoming nauseating. Now maybe if you had beaten him with dragon/barrows using swordies/sharks and no summoning, you'd have an argument....but this quest was made for people with level 79 combat stats. Using 85+ gear in a quest is overkill. Relying on a yak is desperate. Of course he wasn't a "hard boss" to you. -_-

But I guess it's just a matter of opinion. I found NE Nomad way harder than the original pre-EoC. I used ganodermics, tortoise and a shield against him in both fights. Was quite tough. Prepare for hell on RuneScape in Naval Cataclysm!

Pokemon battle? Friend Code: 4614-0426-2439

08-Sep-2016 17:00:38

Hazeel

Hazeel

Posts: 6,735 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Lord Drakan said :
@Hazeel: Not sure if trolling, since you couldn't be more wrong.

"You disagree with me, so I am labeling you a troll."

Nice way to start off. Let's watch this all go downhill from here.

Lord Drakan said :
Defeating Nomad in hard mode meets the criteria (it's a piece of post-quest content that does not require strange-token-esque luck) and so it should be required.

Going with that argument again? OK, I'll revisit my previous point and ask: Why are some pieces of post-quest included while others are not? Here's one that I'm sure will send a chill in the room: Livid Farm. Requires Lunar Diplomacy and is needed to get the full spellbook reward. Seems a lot more relevant than Nomad Hardmode, eh? But it's not there. The "criteria" is non-existent. There is little consistancy in what's required and what isn't. That is why, again, we're simply being asked on our personal views. There is no criteria to consult.

Lord Drakan said :
The fact that the fight adds no new lore is about as relevant as the fact that it adds no new Hunter camouflage gear i.e. not at all.

Relevant to what? I'm being asked my personal opinion on where I think it should be added. I can say no for whatever reason I want.

Lord Drakan said :
This shouldn't even be discussed in the first place, Jagex should realise themselves that it fits the criteria and add it.

Well...I seem to be missing something. Would you mind quoting a J-Mod on what the "Official Criteria" is?

Lord Drakan said :
People are opposing either because they don't want to lose their cape, thinking they won't be able to defeat him (to those: if you don't meet all requirements you don't deserve the cape, simple as that)

Or you just want to lock other lorehounds out of the content and act like a smug snob over a PvM requirement. Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

08-Sep-2016 17:17:19

Voya
Jan Member 2009

Voya

Posts: 2,939 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Hazeel said :
OK, I'll revisit my previous point and ask: Why are some pieces of post-quest included while others are not? Here's one that I'm sure will send a chill in the room: Livid Farm. Requires Lunar Diplomacy and is needed to get the full spellbook reward. Seems a lot more relevant than Nomad Hardmode, eh? But it's not there. The "criteria" is non-existent. There is little consistancy in what's required and what isn't. That is why, again, we're simply being asked on our personal views. There is no criteria to consult.
The reason why Livid Farm isn't a requirement is that it is only considered to take place in a post-quest location and isn't directly related to a quest (not a direct reward nor is it intoduced in the quest). For the same reason most of the Prifddinas content isn't required. Nomad however is very heavily linked to the quest, and it contains the original version of the fight (similarly to annihilator title, which involves nihil fight from FoG).

Hazeel said :
Well...I seem to be missing something. Would you mind quoting a J-Mod on what the "Official Criteria" is?
There was a very, very long thread on which the final criteria for requirements was decided. It isn't on the forums anymore, so I can't give any exact quotes. It did however say* quite clearly that all post-quest content that are directly related (as an example, introduces mechanics for it, which would fit Nomad) and give some permanent 'unlock' are requirements. The soul cape would fit for that criteria, assuming it's not 'rare' or tradeable.
Voya
-
A lorehound, Quest Master and owner of three Quest Capes.

08-Sep-2016 17:58:00 - Last edited on 08-Sep-2016 18:08:56 by Voya

Lord Drakan
Sep Member 2010

Lord Drakan

Posts: 7,043 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Voya said :
Hazeel said :
OK, I'll revisit my previous point and ask: Why are some pieces of post-quest included while others are not? Here's one that I'm sure will send a chill in the room: Livid Farm. Requires Lunar Diplomacy and is needed to get the full spellbook reward. Seems a lot more relevant than Nomad Hardmode, eh? But it's not there. The "criteria" is non-existent. There is little consistancy in what's required and what isn't. That is why, again, we're simply being asked on our personal views. There is no criteria to consult.
The reason why Livid Farm isn't a requirement is that it is only considered to take place in a post-quest location and isn't directly related to a quest (not a direct reward nor is it intoduced in the quest). For the same reason most of the Prifddinas content isn't required. Nomad however is very heavily linked to the quest, and it contains the original version of the fight (similarly to annihilator title, which involves nihil fight from FoG).

Hazeel said :
Well...I seem to be missing something. Would you mind quoting a J-Mod on what the "Official Criteria" is?
There was a very, very long thread on which the final requirements were decided. It isn't on the forums anymore, so I can't give any exact quotes. It did however say quite clearly that all post-quest content that are directly related (as an example, introduces mechanics for it, which would fit Nomad) and give some permanent 'unlock'.
That. An archived link can be found on the wiki, though.

I'm not trying to lock any lorehounds out of anything because 1, I'm not a jerk and 2, this cape isn't meant for lohounds in the first place. It's not PvM, it's PQC.

Also, you conveniently ignore the phoenix & cave wolf precedent while pretending the exclusion of Livid Farm is inconsistent, despite arguments against that, agreed on by Mod Manti himself. Bizarre Boron Fusswell, scryer extraordinaire. OSRS: POH ideas & RS3 minigames & achievement ideas !

Perhaps you're half right; perhaps we can't win. But we can fight.
— Zanik

08-Sep-2016 18:04:13

Wahisietel
Oct Member 2005

Wahisietel

Posts: 3,426 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I'll do the legwork and quote the criteria.

Original message details are unavailable.

We will ask you to complete all quests, miniquests, unabridged sagas and story-oriented content. Story-oriented content is defined as:
- Content that rewards the player with lore (memorium crystals in Elf City)
- Content that asks the player to participate in story-rich content (Court Cases)
- Content that asks the player to play expanded versions of content that featured in a quest (Temple Trekking)
- We will not include content that has a light narrative theme, rather than deep story or connections to a quest. For example, Cabbage Facepunch Bonanza and Livid Farm have some backstory, but are not integral to RuneScape’s storyline.
We will ask you to gain story-oriented unique items. These are defined as:
- Titles, as long as they show off a story accomplishment (Vyrelord/Annihilator).
- Items, cosmetic or otherwise, significant to the storyline (gilded cabbage, Crest of Seren).
- Journals and other books

Original message details are unavailable.

- Minigames and D&D's will be included as long as they:
-> Are directly introduced and/or are mentioned in the Quest and provide one-off or permanent rewards (Court Cases, Temple Trekking, Fight Kiln (enhanced fire cape). Dom Tower/Livid Farm do not fit under these).
- Titles, as long as they show off a direct accomplishment post-quest or are awarded with a one-off XP lamp/drop. I.e. Vyrelord/Annihilator. Rush of Blood titles are not directly tied to the quest, neither is Archamge (few examples).

Nomad fits into both "Content that asks the player to play expanded versions of content that featured in a quest" and the Soul cape under "Items, cosmetic or otherwise, significant to the storyline".

As it stands right now, 4k Chompies is the only thing that meets the criteria that isn't currently included. Arguably The Nexus too, but that was mainly a case of it being missed when we were compiling the requirements, I'd like to see it added at some point. You never were our brightest star, Khazard. 'Vermin slaughtered like lambs'? What does that even mean?

08-Sep-2016 19:09:03

Rondstat

Rondstat

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Honestly, I think this thread has become a sounding board for a lot of folks' dissatisfaction over what the MQC ultimately became, whether they address it directly or not. Including my own.

Had this discussion come up during the original MQC proposals, I would have supported it. Absolutely. It's a very direct piece of postquest content. But I wouldn't support it now. Because supporting any updates to the MQC is irrelevant.

When Mod Jack first brought this to us, it was supposed to be our cape. A cool identifier for the questers, the lorehounds, those who go above and beyond in exploring Runescape's story content. While the rest of the community groaned and guided and spacebarred through quests, this would be something for those of us who truly appreciate Runescape's greatest feature.

That's not what happened. The proposals became hijacked by elitists and completionists. People obsessed with whether the cape would be too easy to get or mean too little. The ease of obtaining the cape never should have factored into the equation.

The cape that exists in game has little to do with quests or lore. And if you see someone wearing it, 9 times out of 10, they are not a lorehound. Chances are, they don't even like quests. They are checklist players, on their way towards completionist, wearing the MQC solely because they think it gives them status . And it does. It's completionist lite.

So, I can neither support nor rally against any updates to the MQC. Anything and everything is fair game to be added to it. Because it's not about quests. It's not about lore. It's about prestige. And very little else.

08-Sep-2016 19:09:29

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