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Balustan

Balustan

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best plot that exists in the game.

I agree with you. Safalaan is made out to be on this journey to this far away place. They clearly scrapped whatever Ana had intended there or at least part of it. I was never a fan of how Safalaan took up all the time in Branches. Trying to focus on a single character in 2 consecutive quests to try mould it into a character series since the developers are not that great at plot probably wasn't a good idea. Personally I do think we need to explore the Bloodlines of Icyene and Vampyres together in some way by necessity. I do think wanting their history is unnecessary to the series. All too often Jagex throws lore in for no good reason and we are told things that just aren't important. Particularly in the 6th age storylines.

Promotion does feel a bit quick. That's what happens when you ignore one half of the Myreque for a quest though. Vanstrom was always a problem. I know you criticise Darkness and Legacy for this but the Vyrewatch are our enemies then who are lead by Vanstrom so he is present. You make the point somewhere about how Vanescula tells you stuff about him to get you to kill him but it makes no sense, we'll ever consider she lied to get you to take a Drakan loyalist out without implicating herself?

Last time the Blisterwood were for gameplay purposes, ie allowing a Slayer Task, this time they were for the quest and it was to do with solving the overgearing issue. I don't think in the case it fixes any tedious parts. If we're talking purely in terms of story the flail should still be in use.

On showing Vampyres as grey why? Not everything needs to be grey. The Vampyres are evil. Branches post launch actually offers some choice to maintain your morality if you wish. Not that it matter. It's a rollplaying thing.

I don't think the series has mishandled characters it's just characters only appear when necessary and say what they need to. We don't have to go into each and every one of their back stories and ask
Lewis
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Quester
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Scottish

15-Dec-2015 14:43:22

Balustan

Balustan

Posts: 19,291 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
them completely irrelevant things for them to give their opinions on. How this became a good thing in the minds of some people is crazy. Drakan was well handled however and lives up to his reputation that had been established.

Yeah he is pretty evil. Though I'm not sure why we actually stand in his way given it would free Morytania in a short timeframe it'd just be devoid of non-ghost people. It's not a plot device here it's used the same way as a blackout. It's used to obscure stuff to surprise you later. Arguably as bad as a plot device but here it is not a plot device.

Your right about him trusting Vanescula to stupid levels. I think you have missed the point though. We aren't supposed to like him, we're siding with him out of necessity essentially like all the Myreque. His powers have not been explained yet. I'll get back to that.

I mean other than the fact he was going to kill everybody then yeah no reason to kill Drakan... Your right your not friends with most of the Myreque, I wouldn't say all. Thank goodness. RuneScape makes us friends with everybody including to the point of ruining entire plots where we make friends with the antagonists of the series and then the plot just trails off.

I hope he's not Ascertes. It makes no sense if Safalaan is dead as he should remain. Visiting Vanstrom's past has been the intention since Branches at least. My view is that if used in the context of exploring another character, say one with a related name, it is absolutely fine. Especially since I believe that link has always been the intention. They do appear to reveal that major thing about Ivan far too out of the blue in this quest tbh.

I think it makes sense that he left his sister alive. He clearly wasn't thrilled to be killing her. Perhaps he couldn't take down Safalaan due to Icyene powers. On this the mysterious woman is the explaination for his powers. That's how they can and should explore the Icyene powers. Now how necessary should this last minute
Lewis
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Quester
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Scottish

15-Dec-2015 14:56:07

Balustan

Balustan

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plot point be? Minimally. She should feature in a small part of the finale, a necessary role, but not as I fear where she will become the saviour in the end leading to a happily ever after ending.

Another instance of asking for meaningless lore in the place of any substance. I like lore but lore is not as important as a plot that makes sense. I really cannot get over how people would really take lore that is pointless I the place of anything of substance.

Again you misunderstand this is not a character driven quest. We weren't supposed to care about the 2 that died in In Aid of the Myreque and we're not really suppose to care about the Myreque here. This is about driving Veliaf's character in this instance.

They absolutely made the reveal of Ivan being the descendent of Ivandis really underwhelming. It's been building up for a fair amount of time whether fully formed or not and to reveal it as they did is a real disservice to the series. Also you say his arc has been in the background. Not really pretty low key but very intentional and actually masterfully done for the first 4 quests.

Vampyrium feels unnecessary really. Just to introduce it. Maybe if they use it to have the Vampyres actually break the Edicts, as understood by the characters in Myreque, it could have a use but otherwise the location makes little difference.

A choice for the sake of it is pointless and absolutely against the series MO. The quest was 6th aged enough with the inclusion of Zaros out of nowhere. Not out of nowhere in the overall lore of the game but I that series. There are no requirements that give knowledge of Zaros or anything. It's literally out of the blue in this series. I'm surprised how few people realise this. T's a big negative Imo.

Well it was obvious she was the main enemy after Branches. I said it at the time just as I thought Safalaan would die. Then again I though Veliaf's would die too as I thought the Myreque as an organisation was a
Lewis
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Quester
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Scottish

15-Dec-2015 15:09:28

Balustan

Balustan

Posts: 19,291 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
constant in the series. Wonder where they are going with Veliaf's despair tbh. Safalaan had a fitting end they should not bring him back.

Vanescula's plan is fine. Maybe her reasoning is stupid but taking Misthakin would be easy for them if they could cross the Salve. The issue with this is it makes the Wereolves crossing, which is a key as of yet unaddressed plot point, seem pointless. Hopefully they do something with that.

Calsidiu is handled poorly. I honestly thought Ana had intended to bring him back when she mentioned him again. I thought Safalaan and Vekiaf were going to die which would lead to the need for a new leader who would appear. Of course I think more quests would have been needed to do all the plot points justice and I think the current attitude of Jagex to quests series is responsible for this. I do wonder if Tytn actually had intended anything with Calsidiu. While I'm fairly certain of where he was taking Ivan there's more that could go anywhere.

I'd largely disagree with you that the series doesn't set up what's happening next. Returning to Drezel is fine but they seem to use him to completely change Ivan from this character has ran throughout to build up to be the saviour to this kind of equal to Drezel...

When talking to Roald they completely muck up the Edicts as thought of by the characters in Myreque. They need to sort that out in the finale. They do need to deal with that plot point. Could have dealt with it in a number of ways. Including Vanescula actually breaking the Edicts by bringing Venator through to aid her. Currently the character says people are breaking the Edicts which is not true. Not sure where the Splinter Group were going mind you, the return of Saradomin is the only thing that comes to mind since that apparently was in motion before the 6th age concept. Think Myreque was more removing the legal stuff that was in their way rather than their actual goal.

I would say it's better than in Aid and Branches though.
Lewis
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Quester
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Scottish

15-Dec-2015 15:24:05

Lord Drakan
Sep Member 2010

Lord Drakan

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Autumn Elite said :
However this is the part where the rest of the series lets this quest down. I’m talking about the deaths of the Myreque. For five quests, these characters have been there but we never really knew them or saw any development. So when it came time for them to die, their deaths hardly feel anything at all. The Myreque are redshirts of the worst kind because at this point we are supposed to feel something yet the deaths are simply ineffective. I assume if these were characters who were developed and liked, this sequence would have been devastating but it simply isn’t. “Oh no, not Kael, he … “. Well what do we actually know about him? Nothing - no ambitions, no family, little motives, little uniqueness. For some of the most unique names in game, we are dealing with some of the least memorable characters ever. This is illuminated earlier by the fact the Myreque fall so easily into the blood categories as they are that limited as characters.
Reading your review and I disagree on many things, but this in particular stood out. I have difficulty believing you. Kael's death was an excellent plot device; following his flight from the vampyres at the blood altar, leading to his friend Andiess's death, he is now prepared to face Drakan himself in the lair of the beast, and is mercilessly slaughtered. I nearly suffered a heart attack when Mekritus died, and Radigad's last stand was really powerful as a plot device too.

When Vertida was killed after we brought Drakan down, I was basically feeling the way Veliaf would after the fight. Utterly defeated. I consider Vertida to be a good friend and his death was devastating. As I said in my own review, I felt the same when the Myreque died as when Hazelmere and the heroes did.

The characters definitely aren't underdeveloped; due to the large cast they have less attention individually than, say, Zanik, but their characters *have* been thoroughly explored. Esp. in TLoV & ISotM. Bizarre Boron Fusswell, scryer extraordinaire. OSRS: POH ideas & RS3 minigames & achievement ideas !

Perhaps you're half right; perhaps we can't win. But we can fight.
— Zanik

19-Dec-2015 09:11:25

Autumn Elite

Autumn Elite

Posts: 3,487 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Going to respond to some of the responses.

Balustan said :
Firstly I think you're kidding yourself with Floor 61.

You have to bear in mind the circumstances. The poll was Floor 61 vs a series of 5 disappointing quests with little chance of rescuing itself. So whilst Floor 61 does have issues, it is miles above the Myreque. I'm unsure if they could have polled another quest I wouldn't have voted for over Myreque. Also Floor 61 has inherent promises. We will see popular characters, we will get lore, questions will be resolved and we will get Floor 61 itself. It was an update with potential vs a series that was so past any goodwill that was ever there. Who knows if Floor 61 would have been good (I believe it would be) but it was certainly starting from a much stronger position and free of much of the baggage Myreque had.

Balustan said :
I honestly don't know how Rowl*y has a good reputation. The Ozan Quests were good but then he did Fate of the Gods, that the community has fooled itself into thinking is good purely due to the lore it revealed or seems to have revealed until Jagex change their mind in a month as is the way of things. I'm not going to address any points about Branches some of which I agree with some of which I don't.

Well the Guardians at least have a fairly good reputation. Rowl*y might not have created a great quest yet but hasn't helmed awful updates at least. Not going to comment on Fate of the Gods since I haven't done it.

Out of curiosity, why not Branches? I complained about that more than Lord, calling it the weaker quest. People have said they disagree and its great but then not delved into why it was good and why I'm wrong. Doesn't do much to convince me.

20-Dec-2015 13:34:37

Autumn Elite

Autumn Elite

Posts: 3,487 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Balustan said :
Personally I couldn't care if it was GM or w/e**** has been watered down to meaningless and at most there was going to be one quest after.

I agree grandmasters are meaningless now but this is a step in a better direction. Not great but a step. Didn't effect my grading but worth noting

Balustan said :
I think the first thing we must establish is what the Myreque series actually is and not what people want it to be. It's a plot driven story to the detriment of characters, as a huge amount of RuneScapes quests are, which tells a solid story, unlike what any recent quests seem to be able to do. It's not about the characters. It's not about the lore. It's not even about the setting. It's about the plot. If plot isn't your thing or at least not plot alone well you're probably not going to like this series.

Its fine to have plot driven series but if you are going to do that you have to make the plot phenomenal. It has to make up for all it loses and it does not. I'm not engaged in the plot, I don't have strong feelings on what I want to happen (other than end and stop taking up resources) and there are moments where the failure to develop other aspects (character, lore ect) made parts of the quest feel empty. This is exemplified in Lord where the Icyene tomb falls short and the deaths earn no reaction. Instead of the pay off to the rest of the series it is supposed to be, it is a hollow moment where "this could have been better" comes to mind. If not up to full potential is the feeling you get walking away from a quest, then its flawed.

20-Dec-2015 13:46:07

Autumn Elite

Autumn Elite

Posts: 3,487 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Balustan said :
I agree with you. Safalaan is made out to be on this journey to this far away place. They clearly scrapped whatever Ana had intended there or at least part of it. I do think wanting their history is unnecessary to the series. All too often Jagex throws lore in for no good reason and we are told things that just aren't important. Particularly in the 6th age storylines.

As someone who didn't like Branches, I don't buy in to this "Ana was great" mentality. Her quest was unbalanced and left a cliffhanger we have no prove she could have done better. For all we know, this was her idea . So I'm not letting her off the hook. Its evidence stories should have a clear focus behind them.

We are going to have 7 vampire quests. I don't want the series to leave potential for more. Everything should be closed off. Taking up 7 slots and not feeling fulfilled is a sign of a bad series.

Part of the reason I support adding lore to the series is that at least that something interesting. It likes people who play for rewards. The Myreque quests are doing nothing for me. I cannot support them. At least if it adds lore, I can see them as something other than a total waste.

Balustan said :
You make the point somewhere about how Vanescula tells you stuff about him to get you to kill him but it makes no sense, we'll ever consider she lied to get you to take a Drakan loyalist out without implicating herself?

That was in my Branches review. You misunderstand. I wasn't criticising the information, I was criticising the timing and feeling. Branches had put no effort into dealing with Vanstrom. It felt like a tacked on boss fight that had no narrative weight or satisfaction. It felt like a rush to throw a useless plot point away rather than an epic clash of enemies.

20-Dec-2015 14:06:28

Autumn Elite

Autumn Elite

Posts: 3,487 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Balustan said :
On showing Vampyres as grey why? Not everything needs to be grey. The Vampyres are evil.

Disagree. Not only is it much harder to care about evil for the sake of evil vampires and stereotyping an entire race is weak writing but its a plot point that the vampires are wanted to be seen as sympathetic. If Vanescula betrayed us for power, fair enough. But she betrayed us for food because apparently the vampires are starving. It would make a much more harrowing choice if we saw that. Instead we get paper thin cliches and are told they are not evil. Poor writing.

Also to extend on my lore point, I'm not asking for unnecessary irrelevant lore. They could have added vampiric lore books to Darkmeyer making sense in Branches and adding to the plot. Same with Icyene lore in the tomb. The story could have benefitted from having lore.

Balustan said :
I don't think the series has mishandled characters it's just characters only appear when necessary and say what they need to.

For a series about freedom fighters how much more tragic and effective would it have been if we cared about these characters? I'm not asking for their life stories but a bit of flavour, some style and substance, so the losses felt like losses.

Balustan said :
Arguably as bad as a plot device but here it is not a plot device.

Well at least we agree its bad.

Balustan said :
We aren't supposed to like him, we're siding with him out of necessity essentially like all the Myreque. His powers have not been explained yet.

I don't think we were supposed to feel ambivalent or even happy about his death though. When will his powers be explained? Its been several quests now and its just left open for excuses. At some point it becomes a flaw. Also it was in the poll - you will discover Safalaan's true potential

20-Dec-2015 14:37:40

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