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On the quest releases' problem

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A Wild Zeek
Dec Member 2023

A Wild Zeek

Posts: 4,324 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Im sorry, but the idea of choices that affect the storyline in an MMOR** is just stupid. All it does is make the developers job harder. There is a reason books have been popular for millennia. Those dont involve choice. The only choices that should be given are ones that affect the path to the same goal. Nothing more. Maybe make a light/dark meter like Fable, but even thats pushing it. Its not worth the time for such a small amount of satisfaction. Just create a story with a beginning and end. Dont make it up as you go along like youre doing now, making multiple different paths. Best quest in the fifth age was While Guthix Sleeps, which is LIGHT YEARS ahead of the best sixth age quest, be it FOT* or TWW. Simplicity beats complexity every time.

01-Jul-2014 02:25:28

A Wild Zeek
Dec Member 2023

A Wild Zeek

Posts: 4,324 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Lord Bilrach said :
I don't see the big deal of WGS....2D hero vs 2D villain...yaaaay.

I dont see the point of the sixth age. Rehashed plot device from the past (god wars), consisting of a war between "gods" with contrived human personalities, and a forced plot. Choices obviously ruin the potential the sixth age has. But you're telling me, Guthix isnt 2d? Im sorry, simply giving characters motivation doesnt make them interesting, neither does giving them forced flaws (Saradomin, Bandos, etc.) The gods were a lot more interesting in the fifth age. At any rate, While Guthix Sleeps, like EVERY SINGLE RUNESCAPE QUEST, is not a character driven story, so how well put together a character is or not is meaningless.

If you want choice in a game, go play a blockbuster like dishonored that can afford it. The best games storywise dont have a choice element. Bioshock Infinite, The Last of Us, Halo, to be more recent. Choice adds nothing but making a gamer feel somewhat relevant.

01-Jul-2014 03:29:04

Lord Drakan
Sep Member 2010

Lord Drakan

Posts: 7,043 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Chaos Lupus said :
I honestly have to say that I'm disappointed with some of the impact of recent quests, particularly with FotG. I feel as if Jagex is rushing the Sixth Age storyline. In my opinion, we've jumped into issues like the great division far too early. Nothing really matches up to the potential end of the universe. I believe that the major issue with the scope of quests is that nothing can really compare to that. That's not to say that all quests should now be huge, Grandmaster quests that have major, long-lasting effects. They don't. But I believe that they should each have an impact in their own way. For example, Lucien's death and the increased activity of the dragonkin on Gielinor (RoTM) had a rather large effect. At the same time, entering Meirerditch and discovering that werewolves have found a way to cross the Salve and are collecting victims for tithes (Darkness of Hallowvale), has an impact as well. Not every quest needs to be filled with epic plot twists and groundbreaking news (although they are nice here and there), but quests should at least have a thick enough plot to keep players interested.

Choices. While I believe that we should be given small choices in quests, like small alterations in dialogue that change a character's opinions of us, I don't support options that have major impacts. For example, choosing whether or not to restore Zaros using the light or dark simulacrum. Now he's near his full power for some players, while he's weakened for others. Jagex now has to work around that. Hazeel is another example. In my opinion, he should be restored for everyone, so that he's not a completely useless character with no real impact on future events (just have Zamorak restore him before the events of his quest). I'd prefer to keep options to dialogue and small actions that make it clear to other characters what our stances on certain subjects are.

Continued...
This. Bizarre Boron Fusswell, scryer extraordinaire. OSRS: POH ideas & RS3 minigames & achievement ideas !

Perhaps you're half right; perhaps we can't win. But we can fight.
— Zanik

01-Jul-2014 07:09:23

Lord Drakan
Sep Member 2010

Lord Drakan

Posts: 7,043 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Lord Bilrach said :
I don't see the big deal of WGS....2D hero vs 2D villain...yaaaay.
SPOILER ALERT

You clearly haven't played WGS then. It's an amazing quest for a smorgasbord of reasons, one of which is that we lose. We, honorary Legends' Guild members, specifically chosen for this mission, the greatest adventurer alive, we lose. Our best friends die and Lucien gets the Stone. No quest had ever pulled that off before and it was, from an out-of-character point of view of course, amazing.

As for your post on the previous page, I so disagree. I don't think players should have the option to side with the villain or go against the hero. To do so would be needlessly confusing. Villains should be villains and heroes should be heroes - otherwise there's no point in telling a story. The fact that you have to join the hero's cause doesn't mean it's a bad story. So long as both the hero's and the villain's characters, histories, motives, etc. are worked out well, the story is good.

I found it terrible that we had a choice of helping or stopping the Cult of Hazeel. The developer should have made that choice. Either help them as the naive adventurer who thinks they're doing the right thing, or hinder them as the noble adventurer hired by Sir Ceril. Or the attempt to make Bandos more appealling to join during WE2: why? He is a villain and that attempt harmed his role as one. Or the completely random choice to kill Zanik during TMF. She was the hero of the series and our best friend. They gave her terrible graphics, but also the choice to *kill* her? No offence, but that was the worst storytelling ever and the most out-of-character thing the player could have done.

Also, as Lupus said, impactful choices (Hazeel Cult, Fot*, etc.) take a lot of the developer's time, not to mention graphics guys or QA, and what's the benefit? A complicated canonicity that doesn't apply to everyone. Really, dialogue-affecting choices suffice. Bizarre Boron Fusswell, scryer extraordinaire. OSRS: POH ideas & RS3 minigames & achievement ideas !

Perhaps you're half right; perhaps we can't win. But we can fight.
— Zanik

01-Jul-2014 07:20:04

Lord Drakan
Sep Member 2010

Lord Drakan

Posts: 7,043 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
And again, so long as the story is told well and everything makes sense, you don't need any choices for added immersion. Ironically, they do the opposite: the only time I have ever thought "well, my character would never say/do this" was during a Sixth Age quest. And on multiple occasions too, since the choices we're given are terribly black and white (in the beginning it was "if you support them you're automatically against everyone else", which is ridiculous, since we had friends and enemies in nearly all factions prior to the Sixth Age. And honestly, if they judge me by which god I (don't) follow, they're bigots, but that doesn't fit their character (except Sigmund, of course :P )), whereas I've always gone along with the story in the Fifth Age. Developers make quests for a reason - I trust them to make my choices. The best part of that is there can be no regrets - whatever you did, you had no choice! (imagine impactful choice in Regicide...ugh) Bizarre Boron Fusswell, scryer extraordinaire. OSRS: POH ideas & RS3 minigames & achievement ideas !

Perhaps you're half right; perhaps we can't win. But we can fight.
— Zanik

01-Jul-2014 07:27:54

Balustan

Balustan

Posts: 19,291 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Chaos Lupus said :
I actually really enjoy post-quest dialogue. I enjoy seeing a character's reaction to past events and my decisions (preferably small decisions). I don't see this as much of an issue. I do believe that post-quest dialogue should be saved for characters who had major roles or were largely effected by the events of the quest. I don't think that this one is much of an issue, as a relatively minimal number of characters are given post-quest dialogue anyway.

The point about Post Quest dialogue is not about not having it but in fact about the recent trend of releasing it after the release. Post quest dialogue should be considered part of the quest part of the impact that quest has. The best thing about FOTGs is the Post Quest dialogue (this generally isn't true of quests of course but FOTG* was pretty bad) and it rounds off and finishes a quest. Without it the quest is incomplete and in actuality if a quest were a full game campaign and was incomplete you would never buy it. Post quest dialogue is the equivalent of the FFVI ending and Jagex do describe their quests as campaigns in scope.

If they released the finishes quest altogether with less dialogue to write afterwards at requests (as obviously they'll forget people who maybe should have post quest dialogue) less time will actually be wasted and in fact this is a recent problem with all content. Look at the wasted time on EoC because they didn't finish it the first time and more time will be wasted because they still aren't finishing it.
Lewis
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Quester
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Scottish

01-Jul-2014 08:14:39

Balustan

Balustan

Posts: 19,291 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Lord Bilrach said :
I don't see the big deal of WGS....2D hero vs 2D villain...yaaaay.

I think your labelling of some villains as 2D is wrong. Particularly when you named Amascut who has a backstory that made her crazy. Lucien I do not think you are wrong about btw and Runescape does not have that one great villain yet. WGS stands up for far more than it's villain as the villain is actually barely in the quest and is probably the weakest part of it. I believe he appears for 2 moments of the quest which is a very short time in that quest.

The villains of the 6th age either don't exist or are Sliske who currently is way Out of Character. Lens*g was a crazy genocidal maniac. Sliske was basically a forum troll. There is no real villain of TWW. FOTGs has no villain. TMF I also believe has no villain though I do not know since I have not played.

I feel like I am missing a quest. Regardless there are only antagonists for the most part and no true villains. The villains we have gotten are either way out of character because Jagex has just changed their personalities cause of a single moment in TWW where they look around and smile and as you call it a 2d villain.
Lewis
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Quester
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Scottish

01-Jul-2014 08:17:41 - Last edited on 01-Jul-2014 08:28:46 by Balustan

Balustan

Balustan

Posts: 19,291 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
You know Jagex once told us choice in quests would impact the number of quests and so they would never do it. Wonder what happened to that. Hopefully another RFD style quest doesn't happen cause they said the same.

Oh btw the 200th quest is going to be a total let down unless it's Myreque now. I think they made things bad for themselves by not releasing enough to make Elf 200th cause let's be honest we will want a great 200th.
Lewis
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Quester
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Scottish

01-Jul-2014 08:25:09

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