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On the quest releases' problem

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Wahisietel
Oct Member 2005

Wahisietel

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Lord Bilrach said :
I put 6th Age stories over 5th Age stories...mainly because the majority if 5th Age quests sucked IMO. Without choices, I just couldn't get interested in the storyline. It's just watching someone else's story while their words are forced to come out of my mouth.

There are a whopping 6 Sixth Age quests (TWW, TDOC, MPD, OOAK, FOT*, TMF), only three of which are generally considered excellent, compared to the ~180 Fifth Age quests, many of which are regarded as the best quests in the game. And of the quests that are considered excellent, they derive heavily from the Fifth Age. TWW was the culmination of it, and also the first "Sixth Age" quest, so it was new, TDOC had little to do with the Sixth Age besides Saradomin appearing, OOAK is a contination of the whole dragonkin/robert the strong fifth age story, and FOT* was the end of a Fifth Age storyline. And then you have the average MPD and TMF. You never were our brightest star, Khazard. 'Vermin slaughtered like lambs'? What does that even mean?

30-Jun-2014 19:23:17 - Last edited on 01-Jul-2014 17:06:27 by Wahisietel

Wahisietel
Oct Member 2005

Wahisietel

Posts: 3,426 Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
It's a real problem that Jagex feel the need to release such epic blockbuster quests so often. We used to get a large variety of quests focusing on a large variety of different storylines, and when we did get the rare quest focused on the gods/mahjarrat ect, they were truly momentus and epic events.

Nowadays they're boring because every other quest is one. Seriously, quests like TWW and FOT* are brought by the fact they're released shortly after another "wham quest". Take a look:

1. TWW
2. BHTB
3. TDOC
4. MPD
5. BOTD
6. OOAK
7. FOT*
8. ASOA
9. TMF
10. PE

There's a real pattern: Huge blockbuster "wham" quest followed by two smaller ones. That's not nearly enough of a break between them. It's possible to continue a storyline without making a huge reveal or anything, the huge blockbuster quests should be much more spread out so they actually feel special. It'd also mean we get more quests in general since the huge ones take so much time to develop. You never were our brightest star, Khazard. 'Vermin slaughtered like lambs'? What does that even mean?

30-Jun-2014 19:26:24 - Last edited on 01-Jul-2014 17:07:02 by Wahisietel

Eren Lapucet

Eren Lapucet

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Lord Bilrach said :
I put 6th Age stories over 5th Age stories...mainly because the majority if 5th Age quests sucked IMO. Without choices, I just couldn't get interested in the storyline. It's just watching someone else's story while their words are forced to come out of my mouth.
I disagree. Sixth Age stories are better mainly because Jagex put more thought and effort into them, and not because of some silly irrelevant player choices.

I agree that there are way too many master and novice quests. We need more intermediate quests.

Edit:
No matter how fashionable my hat is, I will forever be cursed with censors in my name. I'm too Unaligned to have a forum signature.

30-Jun-2014 21:18:54 - Last edited on 30-Jun-2014 21:21:24 by Eren Lapucet

Lord Drakan
Sep Member 2010

Lord Drakan

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Eren Lapucet said :
Lord Bilrach said :
I put 6th Age stories over 5th Age stories...mainly because the majority if 5th Age quests sucked IMO. Without choices, I just couldn't get interested in the storyline. It's just watching someone else's story while their words are forced to come out of my mouth.
I disagree. Sixth Age stories are better mainly because Jagex put more thought and effort into them, and not because of some silly irrelevant player choices.

I agree that there are way too many master and novice quests. We need more intermediate quests.

Edit:
No matter how fashionable my hat is, I will forever be cursed with censors in my name.
IMO, the Sixth Age has great story potential, but Fifth Age quests are so much better due to the Sixth Age's poor execution (summarised for the greater part in Wahi's posts above). And they form the foundation of the Sixth Age anyway.

Lack of choice isn't a problem - so long as the story is told well. And it definitely used to be.

But we're getting off-topic.

As for Wahi's post on the previous page, he's completely right. Do No Evil (a truly marvellous, excellent quest) is a perfect example of how graphics (or choice or VA for that matter) are not necessary. Bizarre Boron Fusswell, scryer extraordinaire. OSRS: POH ideas & RS3 minigames & achievement ideas !

Perhaps you're half right; perhaps we can't win. But we can fight.
— Zanik

30-Jun-2014 21:32:55

Lord Bilrach

Lord Bilrach

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The issue with 5th age quests--for me--is that without choice, there's really no reason to get into the story. There's no reason to question the character's motives or desires or how they could benefit or hurt you. There's no reason to question what is right or wrong, because no matter where you stand, you're stuck doing whatever the game wants you to do.

I hate using words like "all", because there's always an exception, but off the top of my head, all the villains in the 5th age were 2D.

Lucien, Amascut, Mother Mallum, Iowerth, Vanstrom...the Big Bads of the 6th age and they were all 2D. Why are they 2D? Because if they made both sides right, a lot of players would be ticked off that they were fighting for someone they didn't agree with or support...actually in some cases (Saradomin and Zaros in particular) this was the case.

The classic Good vs Evil story could have been fun if the player was allowed to be evil, but we weren't. So in the end, we're stuck with 2D heroes and 2D villains and, in the rare occasion they did add depth to both sides, all this did was make the quester less willing to fight for the side they were forced to be on.

With the 6th Age, there's a reason to thoroughly examine the side you're on, make judgements, and have 3D characters because it actually makes a difference if you decide one character isn't as good as he/she seems or one is nicer than they look. The problem with the 6th age is that there isn't enough individual choice and WAY too much community choices. I think another reason we're getting less quests is because of stupid concepts like WE, which should immediately be scrapped IMO.

30-Jun-2014 22:46:52

Crondis

Crondis

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Just read through the thread.

Very interesting. I enjoyed reading, and I agree with most of the issues in the amount of quests being released.

Graphics are definitely a huge factor in the decline of quests. We don't need amazing new graphics everytime a quest comes out (stop updating the Mahjarrat, dammit), nor do we require amazing new areas to explore with every quest, just for the use to be confined to one-time content. Look at Yu'biusk. All that developement time to have no use once we complete The Mighty Fall. Not that I didn't enjoy the quest, but still.

With the Elves quest, we should have all of the major species up-to-date graphics wise, along with most areas of the game looking spiffy. Now, they can start reusing newer models, keeping graphical designing to a minimum.

I would love to see quests being released at 14 per year, but I'm not very hopeful. A JMod (specifically Mark and Osborne) definitely needs to address the issue. Crondis, mightiest God of the Kharidian Desert!

30-Jun-2014 23:15:43

Chaos Lupus

Chaos Lupus

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I understand why some people dislike voice acting. Or rather, don't believe that it's worth the trade-off for the money and development time that it requires. To an extent, I would be fine with Jagex cutting down on that aspect of quests. That being said, however, I do find that it adds a great deal of depth to the story and makes the player feel much more immersed in the setting. It gives a more real feeling to the emotions and personalities of the characters. Personally, I'd hate to see voice acting be done away with altogether. I'd still like to see it in quests like DoC, MPD, and hopefully Zamorak's quest.

As for graphics, I agree that we definitely don't need fancy new graphics and settings for every quest. I'm perfectly fine with the majority of quests taking place in already-existing locations on Gielinor. I'm also not a fan of some of the newer graphics (Ashdale). Whether newer graphics take more time and resources, I don't know, but I imagine that they do. If that is the case, it's certainly not worth it. Of course, now that the world gate is open, Jagex is going to need to create new environments if they want future quests to take place on other worlds. Again, though, I'd prefer to see the quests on Gielinor take place in already-existing location for the most part.

Continued...
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

01-Jul-2014 01:11:31

Chaos Lupus

Chaos Lupus

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I honestly have to say that I'm disappointed with some of the impact of recent quests, particularly with FotG. I feel as if Jagex is rushing the Sixth Age storyline. In my opinion, we've jumped into issues like the great division far too early. Nothing really matches up to the potential end of the universe. I believe that the major issue with the scope of quests is that nothing can really compare to that. That's not to say that all quests should now be huge, Grandmaster quests that have major, long-lasting effects. They don't. But I believe that they should each have an impact in their own way. For example, Lucien's death and the increased activity of the dragonkin on Gielinor (RoTM) had a rather large effect. At the same time, entering Meirerditch and discovering that werewolves have found a way to cross the Salve and are collecting victims for tithes (Darkness of Hallowvale), has an impact as well. Not every quest needs to be filled with epic plot twists and groundbreaking news (although they are nice here and there), but quests should at least have a thick enough plot to keep players interested.

Choices. While I believe that we should be given small choices in quests, like small alterations in dialogue that change a character's opinions of us, I don't support options that have major impacts. For example, choosing whether or not to restore Zaros using the light or dark simulacrum. Now he's near his full power for some players, while he's weakened for others. Jagex now has to work around that. Hazeel is another example. In my opinion, he should be restored for everyone, so that he's not a completely useless character with no real impact on future events (just have Zamorak restore him before the events of his quest). I'd prefer to keep options to dialogue and small actions that make it clear to other characters what our stances on certain subjects are.

Continued...
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

01-Jul-2014 01:11:37 - Last edited on 01-Jul-2014 01:37:15 by Chaos Lupus

Chaos Lupus

Chaos Lupus

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I actually really enjoy post-quest dialogue. I enjoy seeing a character's reaction to past events and my decisions (preferably small decisions). I don't see this as much of an issue. I do believe that post-quest dialogue should be saved for characters who had major roles or were largely effected by the events of the quest. I don't think that this one is much of an issue, as a relatively minimal number of characters are given post-quest dialogue anyway.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

01-Jul-2014 01:12:12 - Last edited on 01-Jul-2014 01:37:02 by Chaos Lupus

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