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On the quest releases' problem

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Half Centaur
Jun Member 2010

Half Centaur

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I think the biggest cost is graphics. I know you said that not every quest has to release a new area with shiny new graphics, but the problem is, its kind of what we expect now.

A majority of quests right now are set up to lead to new unexplored areas. We can't do this game where Jagex releases a quest with bad graphics- because then they will need to rework it. That is part of the problem as well, if Jagex didn't need to make reworks or graphical updates, we'd be going much faster.

I'm kind of confused by the focus in Jagex with giving us new minigames and skills and activities in general. I don't see a need for it personally, and I'm not sure the people who enjoy that stuff more than me would argue here. Heist, for example, I still haven't played it because I'm just not that interested- but more importantly, there are already tons of great minigames out there that are dying due to lack of attention, and Jagex basically letting them become outdated. Anyway- getting a bit off topic there, sorry.

Its really hard to diagnose this issue- but I'll say what I've said many times to people in game: If you want them to work faster, then they need more resources, for more resources, they need more money- so give them more money. You can't be mad at Jagex for focusing dev time on something they think could increase their income because that ultimately benefits everyone who enjoys the game. "We call it being a hero"
"That's interesting, we call it utter stupidity"

30-Jun-2014 13:51:27

Balustan

Balustan

Posts: 19,291 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
The only thing I can say is better of recent quests and not by too much is character development. The plot and setting were both better before imo as the setting is becoming far too explained and scientific now. The character development being better is only a very general statement though because we had great characters back then too just less of them. I would say that the character development is only in very major characters these days too and that they don't go far enough or include minor characters. They still haven't gotten character reuse is better yet either.

As for the lore books I agree. I like lore but if lore is all it took then Mahjarrat Memories would be the best quest of all time. It is quite clearly not a very good quest if you would count it as one. Lore books as far as I'm concerned are being used partially as appeasement for the lack of quests and are unsatisfactory. Of course Jack seems to enjoy writing them and putting demon lore in game which is part of it too which is fantastic.
Lewis
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Quester
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Scottish

30-Jun-2014 13:54:56

Balustan

Balustan

Posts: 19,291 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Half Centaur said :
I think the biggest cost is graphics. I know you said that not every quest has to release a new area with shiny new graphics, but the problem is, its kind of what we expect now.

A majority of quests right now are set up to lead to new unexplored areas. We can't do this game where Jagex releases a quest with bad graphics- because then they will need to rework it. That is part of the problem as well, if Jagex didn't need to make reworks or graphical updates, we'd be going much faster.

I'm kind of confused by the focus in Jagex with giving us new minigames and skills and activities in general. I don't see a need for it personally, and I'm not sure the people who enjoy that stuff more than me would argue here. Heist, for example, I still haven't played it because I'm just not that interested- but more importantly, there are already tons of great minigames out there that are dying due to lack of attention, and Jagex basically letting them become outdated. Anyway- getting a bit off topic there, sorry.

Its really hard to diagnose this issue- but I'll say what I've said many times to people in game: If you want them to work faster, then they need more resources, for more resources, they need more money- so give them more money. You can't be mad at Jagex for focusing dev time on something they think could increase their income because that ultimately benefits everyone who enjoys the game.

What? No. Ever since their Mt releases which apparently gives them more money I've seen less updates overall despite the claim it was to ensure a bigger team and consistent quality and quantity of updates. Imo both have dropped.

I wouldn't even say they have a minigame focus. The focus shifted back to Combat relatively quickly.
Lewis
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Quester
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Scottish

30-Jun-2014 13:57:05

Half Centaur
Jun Member 2010

Half Centaur

Posts: 6,959 Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Balustan said :


What? No. Ever since their Mt releases which apparently gives them more money I've seen less updates overall despite the claim it was to ensure a bigger team and consistent quality and quantity of updates. Imo both have dropped.


Thats probably nothing to do with the reason quality and quantity have dropped.

It doesn't make sense to give them less money, is what I'm saying. This is a business after all, in order for them to make more, better, content they need more revenue to provide them with more resources. Thats why they're doing this stuff in the first place. "We call it being a hero"
"That's interesting, we call it utter stupidity"

30-Jun-2014 14:03:36

Balustan

Balustan

Posts: 19,291 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Half Centaur said :
Balustan said :


What? No. Ever since their Mt releases which apparently gives them more money I've seen less updates overall despite the claim it was to ensure a bigger team and consistent quality and quantity of updates. Imo both have dropped.


Thats probably nothing to do with the reason quality and quantity have dropped.

It doesn't make sense to give them less money, is what I'm saying. This is a business after all, in order for them to make more, better, content they need more revenue to provide them with more resources. Thats why they're doing this stuff in the first place.

I would agree with you if they had shown that was the case. They have shown that is completely the opposite. Of course I think most of the money is being funnelled into their other games and we know what their track record is like for that.

It's a correlation and probably not a causation but it still shows that just chucking more money at them does not improve the game for us. In fact I'd say it has negatively impacted the game.

They seem very unfocused as a developer compared to OSRS and the focus imo is why OSRS is a much better development team. I don't think OSRS is a better game just their development practices seem much better.
Lewis
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Quester
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Scottish

30-Jun-2014 14:09:21 - Last edited on 30-Jun-2014 14:10:15 by Balustan

Deltaslug

Deltaslug

Posts: 32,671 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
You do realize we're pushing 200 quests atm, excluding "miniquests"?

Part of it is quests are 1 off content.
Sure there might be something new post quest (a weapon, an ability, a dungeon) but that isn't always the case. All of this compared to repeatable content.

A 2nd part of why we had such a drop: Evolution of Combat
Multiple developers and graphics and testing had to get diverted to it.
The start of it around 2011 early 2012 coincides with the drop off in quest releases.
Pretty much every quest with an ounce of combat had to be reworked.
Then the team spends the next 2 years trying to FIX it to get what players want. (Constant tweeks, Revolution) and in the end they spend the time essentially bring back the old style in Legacy ... and there's no telling how much time tehy are going to waste again supporting that.
Oh yeah, they also jumped off a team to support 2007scape, which has actually had a number of rapid fire content releases.

You want to know where 3-7 quests per year went to, how about starting with all of that.

Another part of it, the reworks. Not talking about like Cook's Assistant where the premise stayed the same. OR Vamp slayer where they added a safety net at the time. Or upped the rewards slightly.
After the Gowers left, Jagex had a chance to re-evaluate the story lines.
Granted, quests like Death Plateau and Druidic Ritual were updated to make them more in line with how a skill actually works.
Other quests have been reworked to bring them more in line with their ideal storyline.

30-Jun-2014 14:14:16 - Last edited on 30-Jun-2014 14:16:45 by Deltaslug

Balustan

Balustan

Posts: 19,291 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Deltaslug said :
Did you remember to count the Sagas in your quest count?

Also, the Troll Warzone tutorial was released, and then had a moderate update. All this before being replaced with the Ashdale tutorial.

Sagas are not quests. They are similar but not quite and require less resources because of these things. Not to say I dislike sagas at all. Nadir in particular is better than some quests.
Lewis
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Quester
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Scottish

30-Jun-2014 14:18:15 - Last edited on 30-Jun-2014 14:18:51 by Balustan

Deltaslug

Deltaslug

Posts: 32,671 Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Balustan said :
Deltaslug said :
Did you remember to count the Sagas in your quest count?

Also, the Troll Warzone tutorial was released, and then had a moderate update. All this before being replaced with the Ashdale tutorial.

Sagas are not quests. They are similar but not quite and require less resources because of these things. Not to say I dislike sagas at all. Nadir in particular is better than some quests.

Personally, I'd say you're splitting hairs.
But something tells me disputing this between us would be pointless and lead to a 5 post mini-flaming that ends up going no where ...

30-Jun-2014 14:26:01

Robo Hobo

Robo Hobo

Posts: 19,808 Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Fussy indeed.

:P

Just messing around.

Anyway while I agree I generally liked how quests were created, what they included, etc back years ago, on average moreso than the recent trend, I don't think that's the case for the majority of the game.

I think it's clear ever since they started the new trend of quests that more players have become interested in the storylines in quests. It may not be preferable to the old-timer questers (which the definition of varies from person to person) but it does probably have more people playing the quests.

So I don't think they'd want to change it back when their change has increased the amount of players playing them, and talking about them, despite how much we would prefer it the previous way. I for one though would sacrifice voice overs and, to an extent, graphics for more quests though. New lands are still something I'd be willing to wait longer for however. After all, a big part of questing is exploring, and what better than exploring a place, or a new world, you've never been to before.

I think One of a Kind is a good example that they're willing to toss some old-style quests every so often still, I hope so anyway.

Also if you ask if I have any quote about "more players playing quests" I don't, it's just something I've noticed between the changes, even with the amount of players bots dropping on that front page thing. I could be completely wrong in that analysis. You can only fully appreciate a story when you experience it through the eyes of one of its characters.

30-Jun-2014 14:29:00

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