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Mod Jack

Mod Jack

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I don't personally have a problem with the notion of Zamorak intending to become a god and essentially hunting down and killing Zaros in order to make that happen.

However there are three reasons I don't pitch it this way.

Firstly, it makes Curse of Zaros even sillier. If the Staff of Armadyl is known as a weapon which, with relatively little effort, can turn you into a god, the story of it being left unguarded, messed about with and sold for pence in a pub is even less believable.

Secondly, it makes Zamorak's motivations transparently selfish and murderous. He wanted to kill another being (one that was his beneficiary) for his own personal benefit. We lose all subtlety and ability to claim that it was for the good of the empire, the Mahjarrat or the population.

Thirdly, it would make his plan crazy. Why go after Zaros? Even if we assume that Zamorak doesn't know about tiers and how much more powerful than everyone else Zaros actually is, he's still in control of a ridiculous military force by comparison to, say, any of the other gods. It's even Zamorak's actual job to go and do that. If his objective was primarily to ascend, there would have been a lot of much easier targets available.

09-May-2014 11:32:50 - Last edited on 09-May-2014 11:39:04 by Mod Jack

Any-sao
Dec Member 2020

Any-sao

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Original message details are unavailable.
I don't personally have a problem with the notion of Zamorak intending to become a god and essentially hunting down and killing Zaros in order to make that happen.

However there are three reasons I don't pitch it this way.

Firstly, it makes Curse of Zaros even sillier. If the Staff of Armadyl is known as a weapon which, with relatively little effort, can turn you into a god, the story of it being left unguarded, messed about with and sold for pence in a pub is even less believable.

Secondly, it makes Zamorak's motivations transparently selfish and murderous. He wanted to kill another being (one that was his beneficiary) for his own personal benefit. We lose all subtlety and ability to claim that it was for the good of the empire, the Mahjarrat or the population.

Thirdly, it would make his plan crazy. Why go after Zaros? Even if we assume that Zamorak doesn't know about tiers and how much more powerful than everyone else Zaros actually is, he's still in control of a ridiculous military force by comparison to, say, any of the other gods. It's even Zamorak's actual job to go and do that. If his objective was primarily to ascend, there would have been a lot of much easier targets available.

Well if those are your issues, the simple thing to do is blame Zaros for all of it.

I imagine after thousands of years of domination, people (or otherwise) must be growing stagnant of Zaros' rule.
In Curse, the Siphon was sold for cheap in the hopes that it would lead to the demise of Zaros. And to being unguarded, perhaps this was Armadyl's own way to lead to the exile of the Unjust god.
Bloodthirsty and ruthless? Zamorak isn't destroying an empire, he's liberating it from an empty throne! He wants the empire to grow stronger and, well, chaotic.
Zamorak has an army of demons, Vampyres, and Mahjarrat (him too!). He believes he's virtually unstoppable. If he wants to make a difference: You need to go after the big God.. I’m not great at this game, but I do love quests.

09-May-2014 13:03:26

Any-sao
Dec Member 2020

Any-sao

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Continued
...Zaros would be the ideal target: Given the fact they're both Mah's creations, you would think Zamorak's "inheritance" of the Empire post Zaros' defeat would come naturally. Well, unfortunately, he was carried off to Infernus before he could fill the Throne with his new divine buttocks.

When in doubt, blame Zaros. The staff was revealed to kill Zaros, the killing of Zaros was in hopes of liberty, and Zamorak took down Zaros in hopes to earn enough respect from other gods and enough to take the empire.

Rrr! I’m not great at this game, but I do love quests.

09-May-2014 13:10:20

Paravant

Paravant

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"In Curse, the Siphon was sold for cheap in the hopes that it would lead to the demise of Zaros. And to being unguarded, perhaps this was Armadyl's own way to lead to the exile of the Unjust god."

And because they had no idea just what the hell it would do. Also, "left unguarded in hopes it'd lead ot the exile of the unjustgod" the hell does that mean? Join: July 2005 | Member 1: October 2005 - February 2007 | Member 2: April 2007 - Present
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09-May-2014 17:40:26

Lord Bilrach

Lord Bilrach

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Fair points. However...

1) Well apparently we can't trust anything said in the Curse of Zaros mini quest so, I don't seen much an issue here...

2) I can't see Zamorak planning to take over the empire without killing Zaros. Maybe there's a part of Zaros' character I'm not seeing, but it's hard for me to believe that Zamorak thought Zaros was just going to step down, run away, and not have to be killed.

In addition, I believe you mentioned Zamorak could have killed Zaros for multiple reasons. I feel that, for the good of the empire, becoming a God would be pretty necessary for Zamorak. I mean without a God, the empire would be so vulnerable with the other Gods running around.

3) ...Yeah, I wondered that for awhile. I always assumed it was either

A) He didn't understand tiers and that Zaros was on a higher one.

B) He really wanted Zaros specifically to be gone and he wanted to have the element of surprise for this.

C) You guys mentioned in the Zamorak podcast that Zaros probably limited his power. If Zaros found out Zamorak had the staff, the stone, and became a God, there could be a problem.

D) Maybe Zamorak DID know Zaros was more powerful and thought that by killing him, he'd gain more godly energy. You could make sense of this by saying it's his Strength through Chaos ideology showing in which he takes the harder path rather than the simpler path of killing Saradomin or Armadyl. Or you could say he was power hungry and greedy to the point of impatience and recklessness, which could be one of his character flaws and why he went for Zaros first.

Of course, I'm just assuming all of this based on the dialogue with Char. There has to be some reason she felt he planned to kill Zaros and become a God. It can't just be because he wounded her and hid her in a cave. The Zarosian empire was filled with political squabbles and according to this comic, even Azzanadra had political enemies. There's many reasons Zamorak could have attacked her.

09-May-2014 18:05:41 - Last edited on 09-May-2014 18:09:10 by Lord Bilrach

Balustan

Balustan

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@EmperorErik Well he was just about to return and hand over the Empire to Azzanadra and Zamorak so it makes sense to me that Zamorak would see a ruler who does not appear to need or rule his Empire handing it over.

Also I don't think at that point without a god the Empire would be vunerable. They had a massive power source, massive armies of some power and then Zamorak now had those artefacts it'd be pretty hard for any gods to compete. Also Saradomin for instance was likely tier 5 until he got the Stone of Jas and then Bandos was the biggest threat but his following is pitiful compared to the Zarosian Empire.
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09-May-2014 18:10:09

Lord Bilrach

Lord Bilrach

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@EmperorErik Well he was just about to return and hand over the Empire to Azzanadra and Zamorak so it makes sense to me that Zamorak would see a ruler who does not appear to need or rule his Empire handing it over.

If Zamorak knew this, why bother fighting him then?

09-May-2014 18:30:12

Balustan

Balustan

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@EmperorErik Well he was just about to return and hand over the Empire to Azzanadra and Zamorak so it makes sense to me that Zamorak would see a ruler who does not appear to need or rule his Empire handing it over.

If Zamorak knew this, why bother fighting him then?

I don't think he knew that specifically but he knew Zaros would hand over his Empire to somebody at some point just by knowing Zaros as he did. Also even then he may have wanted it all for himself.
Lewis
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09-May-2014 18:31:49

Velia
Jan Member 2020

Velia

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@ Page 12:

So instead of staring down at Zammy like a boss, snap his fingers, and tell his minions to "Get him (Zamorak)" then say "Look Auriculus and Ocellus, it's dinner!" ^_^ Zaros just decided to skip over the "Things 5-year-olds know that bad guys shouldn't do" lessons and exposed his weak spot to the enemy.

Damn, now I'm really regretting giving him that dark simulacrum, and I thought it was bad enough that he wants to basically bomb the nest of some super-powered creatures and expect them to be okay with that and sit around a round little table and drink tea with him as Zaros tells them why they should listen to him... please let me be able to eliminate him, pleeeaaaseeee!!!

...And I also want to make amends with myself for not listening to my gut, which was screaming " He isn't telling you anything about what his plans are, sabotage him, it's going to be something stupid. "

09-May-2014 22:12:59

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